What are the good brands to get for Monolights?

[krbimaging]

I plan on doing allot of location shooting this summer so I am going to invest in some good quality Monolights. I hate having wires everywhere. I am moving from my present set up of Flashes and umbrellas.

What are some of the good quality Monolight brands that I should consider? Also what ones should I avoid? These arn't cheap and I only want to spend my money once.

Thanks.

 

[tirediron]

How much money do you want to spend? $2500 a head will get you into Profoto; $100 a head will get you into Flashpoint. Paul C. Buff's gear (Alien Bees, White Lightening) is generally fairly well regarded. I'm personally a fan of Elinchrom as a nice compromise between good quality and high price. Stay away from Cowboy Studio and ANYTHING on eBay that ships directly from China, or offers a whole kit with several lights, stands, etc for only a couple of hundred dollars. I would expect to spend about $500-700/each for good quality.

 

[Gavjenks]

I can attest that the alienbees at only about $250 each are excellent quality. I have more than one, and no problems ever with any of them. Well except a modeling light exploding, but that was me being a moron and leaving it on in an enclosure for like 12 hours >.> and only costs $10.

That's just the monolight though for $250, still significantly more expensive than cowboystudio, which I haven't tried but I'm 100% happy to agree is probably complete crap.

 

[krbimaging]

Well, I have no intent on spending $2500 for a single head. I can't justify that at my present skill. However $1100 per head is justifyable. Profoto D1 Air 500 for instance. I'm not really looking at what to buy as much as I want peoples experence with particular brands. I know what I want my gear to do and it seems several brands fit my bill I'm not familiar enough with any of the brands out there. I want good customer support (if ever needed) and reliablity. Rather than saying "What about brand X?" I want to see what folks want to brag about or cuss about.

If I bought Cheep china junk I get what I pay for. It's not my goal to have toss in the trash gear.

 

[Gavjenks]

Basically any of the above (except cowboystudio) are going to flash some light at stuff, and not break. And they all have good customer service. Honestly, I don't really know what else you'd be looking for in brand-related information. Good brands do what they say on the package. At least for monolights, which are pretty straightforward things. I think people have emotional opinions about things like cameras or cars because they're more intimate and complicated and offer more subtle performance differences. Monolights are more like, I dunno, an undershirt or a toothbrush. Might work or not, but I don't feel the inclination to rant and rave or cuss about it either way.

So if I were you, I would just decide what you need for your photos in terms of watt seconds and/or flash duration and/or triggering compatibility, power draw, blah blah whatever. For now and also leaving some room a ways into the future if your business grows. Then buy the cheapest light available that is advertised as covering those needs from any of the above brands.

 

[Derrel]

Good customer support is the thing Paul C. Buff customers love to talk about. Buff's low-priced lights are popular because they are low-priced and Buff markets the chit out of them, but they do break down and malfunction a LOT, so the web is FILLED with stories and anecdotes about "great customer service" on broken and malfunctioning Alien Bee lights and other items. It's funny...you DON'T hear those stories about DynaLite, Profoto, or Speedotron gear because those three brands are built for professional use and abuse, and have proven themselves for over 30 years in rental houses across the USA. But yeah, if you want quick turnaround for broken or malfunctioning lights, Buff offers that.

 

[Gavjenks]

Eh, I mean yeah alienbees are made of plastic buckets and you can feel a bit of bend in the lever when you lock them down, and stuff like that. But I throw mine around in bags and cars quite a bit more than I should and subject them to heavy temperature change and leave them on for hours and hours and they hold out just fine.

I don't doubt that they break down MORE OFTEN than tank-like profoto beasts. But we're probably talking more like 0.2% vs. 1% here, not 0.2% vs. 15%.
I liken it to basically the same sort of difference between something like a 70-300 high end consumer tele zoom lens vs. a 70-200 2.8 IS pro lens in terms of build quality. They are both perfectly fine 99+% of the time and if you're not an insane photographer.

Yes, the 70-200 is built probably 10x as tough, but you almost never need 1/10th of that toughness... And if you don't, then it's just wasted on you but still costs $$. Maybe if you're mountainclimbing with it in a monsoon, then yes. And if you want to go mountainclimbing with your monolight (lol), then by all means, avoid alienbees. Or if you expect to be a clumsy oaf and drop your light stands multiple times. Otherwise it's just "well built" vs. "way overbuilt" and you are unlikely to ever experience the consequences of the difference.

 

[table1349]

I plan on doing allot of location shooting this summer so I am going to invest in some good quality Monolights. I hate having wires everywhere. I am moving from my present set up of Flashes and umbrellas.

What are some of the good quality Monolight brands that I should consider? Also what ones should I avoid? These arn't cheap and I only want to spend my money once.

Thanks.

One thing you need to factor into your consideration is what you are generally going to use them for. Since I shoot a lot of sports when I need additional light in venues where I can install mine. My needs are probably different than yours. You might want to check out the Elinchrom line. Here is one of their newer, very full feature models. Elinchrom Zoom Pro HD Head EL20192

 

[Derrel]

Sorry, but I disagree with your characterizations of the robustness and the reliability and the breakdown "estimates" of Alien Bees lights. But by your kind estimate, AB's would break down five times more often that a robust brand. Wow...how reassuring!
I have one set of Speedotron lighting gear that I bought new in 1986 and it has never needed ANY service. As in "None." I have old Speedotron Brown Line lights that are 35 years old, as well as some Black Line stuff made during the Gerald Ford era, as well as some former rental lights that have been BEAT TO CHIT and are dented to a degree that is hard to fathom..and they still work fine. I have a few 28 year-old Speedotron flashtubes that STILL work!

Alien Bees and Speedotron, or DynaLite, or Profoto lighting gear have in fact ZERO connection to the 70-200 and 70-300 analogy. None.

One brand is economy stuff, made in China and sold cheaply. The other three brands are legendary for their utter LACK of need for "customer service to get them functioning."

Speedotron, Profoto, and DynaLite make the best products with the most accessories for three separate niches where high-performance studio flash units are needed.

The Paul C. Buff Alien Bee line is low-cost, entry-level gear, built to sell at low-cost, yet priced at over 2x the price of say also-Chinese-made Flashpoint lights. Alien Bees output is lower than Flashpoint, so if a guy wants to go low-cost, Flashpoint makes sense; $99 for a light that puts out MORE LIGHT than a $249 AB light.

 

[Gavjenks]

But by your kind estimate, AB's would break down five times more often that a robust brand.

Perhaps.
But I'm also approximately 5x more likely to die by shark attack in North America than by cougar mauling.
I don't really feel it would be appropriate to spend $1000 extra on my clothing due to it being demonstrably better at anti-shark defense, however. Do you?

Money spent on preventative protection should be based on ABSOLUTE expected losses of the different options, not RELATIVE percentages. A very low chance versus an absurdly low chance is not really important either way when absolute expected losses are trivially small for both.

yet priced at over 2x the price of say also-Chinese-made Flashpoint lights.

Also you seem to be implying that alienbees flash heads are made in China. They are not. Alienbees strobes are manufactured in the United States. And are very noticeably higher build quality than ebay random China strobes which I have also worked with.

 

[Gavjenks]

Making up some numbers to show the general concept:
Unit A costs $2000, breaks at 1% per year. Expected loss per year = $20.
Unit B costs $500, breaks at 5% per year. Expected loss per year = $100. This difference actually matters, and you will make up the initial higher cost in a sort of reasonable number of years (18), quite possibly while you're still a photographer.

Now what if the absolute numbers go down, but maintain the same ratio of breaking incidents?
Unit C costs $2000, breaks at 0.1% per year. Expected loss per year = $2
Unid D costs $500, breaks at 0.5% per year. Expected loss per year = $2.50 This difference is meaningless for your wallet. It's still "5 times more likely," but to make up the initial higher cost of unit C, on average you'd have to own it for 3,000 years...


I have no idea what the numbers actually are, but it's easy to calculate that to make up the price difference in, say, 20 years between an alienbees and a profoto, you'd have to be destroying like half a dozen alienbees at a steady clip of one every few years, and have the Buff company blow you off every single time and refuse all the warranties, etc. Astronomically unlikely, IMO.
VERY likely by comparison with no customer service, almost-as-expensive-but-way-crappier ebay china lights.

Advice to anybody who manages to blow through 6 alienbees in 20 years with no warranties on any of them: Try using your monolights for photography, and not as skeet shooting targets, and you might find your money goes further.

 

[table1349]

I've got a set of Norman pack lights that I have had for 30 years. Never had a failure yet. Replaced a few modeling lights and a couple of flash tubes. Quality beats quantity every day of the week. Plus I don't worry about color shift at low power. For studio work I don't mind pack lights.

 

[Lighcatcher]

It depends how powerful lights you need, but Alien Bees are very good and affordable brand. AB400 or AB800 are good value/power. AB800 will give you 300W/sec power output which is good for small to medium size studio.

You cam also use AB800 for outdoor shots and overpower the Sun at certain times of the day. Whatever, you decide it's not worth it to buy cheap lights which will break after a year and you will end up buying good lights later.

Cheers

 

[Gavjenks]

Also consider this:
Let's say you need 2 500 W/s monolights for the shoots you want to do.

Option 1: Buy THREE Einstein (same company as alienbees) that go up to 640 W/s, 9-stop range, down to 1/13,000th second duration, 2,000 full power shots per hour, color constancy, 1/10th stop control = $1,500
Option 2: Buy TWO Profoto 500W/s lights, 7-stop range, down to 1/2600th second duration, 1,500 full power shots per hour, color constancy, 1/10th stop control = $2,400

Option 1 gives you actually more utility and flexibility in the lights' options, because Einsteins can simply do more. AND saves you $1,000. The potential drawback is that maybe the build quality is not "tanklike." However, notice that I wrote "THREE" Einsteins. Even if there's a slightly higher chance of one breaking than the profoto in the middle of a shoot, you just whip out the backup and keep going. Then send off the other unit to the company whose excellent customer service should sort it out with you like everyone online says they do. In the meantime, just use your other two units, in a week or two, you're back to having a working backup. A scenario which frankly is likely to never happen even once on average, but if you demand high reliability, you have peace of mind and still save lots of money and get more flexibility.

In fact, option 1 gives you MORE reliability, because unless profotos are made out of adamantium and unicorn blood, the chances of having TWO einstein units fail at the same time (necessary to stop your shoot) is guaranteed lower than one profoto failing (which also stops your shoot). In order for this not to be true, it would have to be some ridiculous, like, 50x more likely per shoot to fail or something for the Einsteins, which clearly isn't remotely true.



Why would you not choose to simultaneously get:
* Higher reliability of making it through each shoot overall
* 40% off the price
* ~5x better motion freezing ability
* faster recycling
* more power
* more range

Well, again, maybe if you're carrying your monolights up a mountain, profotos might be a better choice. Otherwise, I suggest they are not.

 

[tirediron]

Also consider this:
Let's say you need 2 500 W/s monolights for the shoots you want to do.
Option 1: Buy THREE Einstein (same company as alienbees) that go up to 640 W/s, 9-stop range, down to 1/13,000th second duration, 2,000 full power shots per hour, color constancy, 1/10th stop control = $1,500
Option 2: Buy TWO Profoto 500W/s lights, 7-stop range, down to 1/2600th second duration, 1,500 full power shots per hour, color constancy, 1/10th stop control = $2,400
Option 1 gives you actually more utility and flexibility in the lights' options, because Einsteins can simply do more. AND saves you $1,000. The potential drawback is that maybe the build quality is not "tanklike." However, notice that I wrote "THREE" Einsteins. Even if there's a slightly higher chance of one breaking than the profoto in the middle of a shoot, you just whip out the backup and keep going. Then send off the other unit to the company whose excellent customer service should sort it out with you like everyone online says they do. In the meantime, just use your other two units, in a week or two, you're back to having a working backup. A scenario which frankly is likely to never happen even once on average, but if you demand high reliability, you have peace of mind and still save lots of money and get more flexibility.
In fact, option 1 gives you MORE reliability, because unless profotos are made out of adamantium and unicorn blood, the chances of having TWO einstein units fail at the same time (necessary to stop your shoot) is guaranteed lower than one profoto failing (which also stops your shoot). In order for this not to be true, it would have to be some ridiculous, like, 50x more likely per shoot to fail or something for the Einsteins, which clearly isn't remotely true.

Why would you not choose to simultaneously get:
* Higher reliability of making it through each shoot overall
* 40% off the price
* ~5x better motion freezing ability
* faster recycling
* more power
* more range
Well, again, maybe if you're carrying your monolights up a mountain, profotos might be a better choice. Otherwise, I suggest they are not.

Knowing full well that I will regret this....

First of all, two of your statistics are for all practical intents and purposes, meaningless: 1/13000 of a second flash duration? WHO cares???? My speedotron heads at full power have something like a 1/800 of a second flash duration, and guess what? There has never been a time when that hasn't been fast enough. Unless you are shooting some sort of scientific research project, or trying to stop bullets mid-flight this is irrelevant. 2000 full power pops per hour? That's over 33 frames a minute. Guess what. Your camera can't keep up with that, so again. Who cares?

Are two ABs/Einsteins 50x more likely to fail simultaneously than one Profoto? I have no evidence one way or the other, but if I had to lay my money down, I'd lay it down on the Profots working and continuing to work.

All of that aside, there are much more reasonable choices than either of the extremes listed here. Elinchrom and Bowens are excellent names and both are a very good balance of quality and price point.