What do you do?

[mwcfarms]

So I have been practicing portrait sessions with friends, family co-workers and run into an issue. Usually when I do the initial edit, I will get rid of all the garbage and then edit a handful or the pics. If i shoot 100- 150 I try to give them around 20 - 35 to choose from. I give them this on disc. Changing this because it just causes issues. I will have multiple shots of the same pose with minor changes. Different angles or change position of a person etc. One of the people that work for my company wants a copy of all the uneditted pics. She said in an email that there were shots in there she was expecting to see and didn't. Especially of her daughters puppy. I did a family shoot then did one of her daughters and her daughters horse and then the other daughter had a brand new puppy and wanted pics. Arg. Anyways how do you avoid stuff like this. I explained in the beginning that this was my process and now I don't want to piss her off so will probably just give her a copy of all the file. :thumbdown:

 

[Aayria]

Ugh, I had this happen early on =( One of my first sessions that wasn't with somebody I knew, was for a woman who had a baby boy. I did her maternity pictures for free, and her newborn pictures for gas money to drive to her home. Gave her a CD with all the edited pictures...and she did the same thing you're mentioning. >< I had a difficult time shooting her newborn, because it turned out to be a dark/stormy afternoon, and her house had NO light. At the time, I didn't have any extra lighting, I had always just used window light... So when I edited her session, I was scraping to even get 15 keepers. I took nearly 500 pictures!!!

Well.. I gave her the CD, and she emailed me later saying she was confused because she thought she'd get ALL the pictures..and what about the one we tried to fit in at the end where she asked all her hungry, grumpy, annoyed children to sit together "nicely" on the sofa with Mom and dad in the dark living room, all trying to squeeze in front of the narrow black fabric I had been using to pose baby on.

Well.. needless to say those pictures didn't turn out. And I explained my editing process to her. But in the end.. I realized I was at fault for not making clear to her what to expect. From her perspective, I was clicking away that camera button a mile a minute, and I was in her living room with the baby nearly four hours. To her, it doesn't make sense to explain how I could only get 15 "good" pictures from that..because to her eye, ANY picture of her precious newborn is "good." She said that she was upset because it felt like I was choosing which pictures she got and she "didn't get any say in it.."

So what I did.. was explain to her how my process worked, and apologize for not having been more clear in the beginning. I told her editing was a long process, and that it's not my policy to ever release original copies of my work. But that to help her, I'd be glad to let her at least *SEE* every original file, and choose a handful that I'd do my best to edit for her.

Keep in mind, this shoot went so badly, that even the 15 images I gave her, took nearly two hours EACH to edit decently. (I was also more slow with editing then, granted, but still.)

So.. I posted all 500 original images in a password protected gallery on my website...gave her the password.. and said I'd keep them up for two months.

Never heard back from her.

I still feel terrible about how that went.. But I learned a really important lesson. Since then, I have made it a point to tell every single person I take pictures for exactly what they can expect and how I go about editing. I explain that even if we take 10,000 pictures.. My goal is to get at least 20 or so to "turn out" to my standard. And that I do not release or show originals.

Honestly though.. I had a lot more people complain about this when I wasn't charging, or when I was charging next to nothing. After I started charging decent rates, people seemed MUCH happier with what they got lol.... Sure, my work was better by then, but it's true that people really do place much more value on something if they are actually investing in it.

Now, I don't release digital negatives *at all.* If people want copies of my work, they can order prints through me.. Or they can copy their small resolution watermarked files from the facebook page =P

Ok that was a novel! But I hope it helped a little. Best of luck.. it's so hard dealing with such nit-picky complaints on something you worked so hard to give somebody. It's so weird how people always push and push for as much as they can squeeze out of you sometimes. ><

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

If someone is paying you and there are specific shots/poses/locations that they want, you need to deliver ( even if it means 50 extra shots to be sure you have a moderately useable keeper ) or else explain up front that the shot isnt working. Thats what being a pro is all about. Dependable, and skilled enough to get the shot when the shot matters, whether it requires more shooting, or more equipment.

 

[Aayria]

If someone is paying you and there are specific shots/poses/locations that they want, you need to deliver ( even if it means 50 extra shots to be sure you have a moderately useable keeper ) or else explain up front that the shot isnt working. Thats what being a pro is all about. Dependable, and skilled enough to get the shot when the shot matters, whether it requires more shooting, or more equipment.

I agree with that.. But she's not talking about being a pro.. She's doing practice sessions for friends/coworkers. I agree that if somebody has a speciffic shot they really want, you should take extra effort to make sure that one makes it to the final cut. But presumably, she's still practicing on people so that later she *can* be comfortable in her ability to "deliver."

 

[mwcfarms]

Who mentioned getting paid. I know I never did.

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

I know that you didnt say paid, but are you aspiring to take free photos for coworkers forever? I was trying to make the point that at some point you have to place responsibility solely on you as the photographer. Maybe you arent ready for that ( not a dig ) but something you should keep in the back of your mind. If its a strictly friendly and free deal and you were upfront about it, then there shouldnt even be a question. Beggers cant be choosers right?

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Also, I would never release files you dont want to release. she should have understood your agreement, but no matter how you slice it, it will make you look like the bad guy. you could offer a reshoot of that pic, but thats your call.

 

[tirediron]

The main issue here is: "What did you promise to deliver"? One thing that I do to try and avoid exactly this situation is explain to the client up front, "You will notice that I take many more photos than you actually see. This is so that I ensure that everyone has their eyes open, are looking at the camera, etc. I will only show you what I believe to be the best images, however if there is one that you specifically want that is not included in your proof disc/gallery, please call me and I will make it available if it is of good enough quality".

Under no circumstances would I ever give someone the whole folder from a shoot. If you can, explain to her that typically, out of every ten shots, only 1 - 2 are good enough for the client because of things like involuntary blinking, movement, etc. Also explain that you have a firm policy of NEVER giving un-edited images to clients for two reasons: (1) Because most people don't have the special software to deal with raw camera images, and (2) because while you completely trust him/her/them, there have been cases where un-edited pictures have been published on Facebook and such 'sites and since those images are fully processed, they are not reflective of your normal standards for finished product, and thus can demean your reputation. Tell her that as a special favour you will try (but can't promise) to find one or two of the puppy pictures that meet your standard.

 

[tirediron]

Who mentioned getting paid. I know I never did.

It's good practice to treat every client as if they were a paying customer. I recently shot my brother's wedding. I did everything exactly as I do for paying jobs. Same pre-event consultations, same explanations of product and delivery times, etc, etc.

 

[mwcfarms]

Yes I did explain all of that too her in the beginning. She is one of these people that is a micro-manager over-worrier and has supreme control issues. But I was happy enough to do this for her. The session went well and I gave her 40 images. Different edits and whatnot that I was happy with and I emailed her after she sent her request and explained exactly what you said John but will make available to her other pictures that she might want to see. I just want to prepare myself for this for when I do start actually accepting payment. As well as I wont be giving the images on CD anymore for free.

 

[tirediron]

... I just want to prepare myself for this for when I do start actually accepting payment. As well as I wont be giving the images on CD anymore for free.

Remember, before they give you paper (money) you give them paper (contract). These are excellent things to consider for clauses in your standard contract.

 

[Big Mike]

Here is another angle to consider on this topic...

Work toward the goal of needing very little post processing on your images. Ya ya, of course we should all work toward that, but when you really start to see the benefits of that, it all makes so much sense.
Then there is the post processing that you do do. If you can minimize and/or streamline it, it can help this situation (Lightroom FTW).

Also, consider having another level of 'finished'. For example, if you can do a very quick edit of a bunch of image...color correct and quick brightness exposure if needed. These could be your 'proof' stage of editing.
From there, you could take your pic for the final group of image to further edit and deliver to the client...but if they do ask for more, you can give them the proof images, which should look good, just not finished...and tell them that you can 'finish' another few images of their choosing (maybe charge for that).

Or, maybe a more traditional method would be to show them the images at the proofing stage, let them choose a certain number of them and then only 'finish' the chosen ones.

Of course, you can always run into someone who asks about a photo they are expecting to see, and that's why it's still important to let them know upfront, how you operate.

 

[Overread35]

You are however presenting it in a working esqu basis - ie you are showing concern about letting lower grade work of yours be released which suggests strongly that you are building toward some kind of future working photographic setup - either fulltime or part time.

Thus the answer has to also come from the concept that you are a "working pro" even though you aren't (I think that makes sense on some level ).

I think the point is well founded - even though these are practice shots not formal contract paid work, you are still treating it as such which means that you've got to ensure that you get those key posed shots on the day. If nothing else to give yourself the confidence and the real world practice for the future contract paid work.
Otherwise all you're doing is practising lighting setups and you can torment family at home with that endlessly.

Once you practice at paid work you've got to practice the whole thing not just part of it in order for it to be valid practice.

(edit - darn I should learn to refresh tabs before typing )

 

[mwcfarms]

Yup these are all great points guys and thanks so much for your input. I actually met with a lawyer last week to go over and get a contract set up for this sort of thing and to iron out any legit areas because honestly even doing it for free right now I want to be able to use the pictures to build a portfolio and presence so when I do have set prices and charge I won't run into this issue. I guess I'm just frustrated with this situation and wanted to see if there was anything else I could add upon to help eliminate this again. Appreciate all your feedback. :hug::

 

[mwcfarms]

Thanks BigMike, I think I am going to totally revamp how I present the images to clients and finished product. I like that flow much better. Now to find a client hosting site that will allow me to show proofs and ordering.