What is the best beginner camera - a test!

[Derrel]

All cameras are equal, right? A Nikon D6 is the equal of a Canon T7i. I read as much earlier in the thread. Why spend $5,000 when a $389 camera can do just as well?

Oh and the same goes for motorcycles, cars, dishwashers, cellular phones, and computers: all of them are equivalent to all others in their category.

It does not matter what tool or instrument you use. All you need is talent and creativity..

 

[Dave Maciak]

All cameras are equal, right? A Nikon D6 is the equal of a Canon T7i. I read as much earlier in the thread. Why spend $5,000 when a $389 camera can do just as well?

Oh and the same goes for motorcycles, cars, dishwashers, cellular phones, and computers: all of them are equivalent to all others in their category.

It does not matter what tool or instrument you use. All you need is talent and creativity..

Have not seen an "creativity" switch on any camera yet. Agree 110%

 

[Solarflare]

All cameras are equal, right?

Agree 110%

How old are you ? Because I'm fairly sure you're surprisingly bad at spotting very obvious sarcasm.

 

[fmw]

All cameras are equal, right? A Nikon D6 is the equal of a Canon T7i. I read as much earlier in the thread. Why spend $5,000 when a $389 camera can do just as well?

Oh and the same goes for motorcycles, cars, dishwashers, cellular phones, and computers: all of them are equivalent to all others in their category.

It does not matter what tool or instrument you use. All you need is talent and creativity..

Give a $5000 camera to a rank beginner and a $389 camera to talented creative phographer and send them out for a day of shooting. Take a guess at who will return with the best images. I didn't say every camera can do everything. I said the camera one uses isn't the reason for the quality or value of an image. I stand by that.

 

[photo1x1.com]

I would have never thought that my video would start such a weird discussion, to be honest. A camera test is supposed to help people find the best camera for their needs. Some of you guys on the other hand compare beginners to professional photographers.
As a beginner, you can only buy cameras, not talent. So what is wrong with maximizing the output of those things that you can buy instead of buying the worst possible equipment for whatever reason? It won't make you a better photographer if you buy the worst camera for your budget.
What I was hoping to be helpful in a beginner forum ended up in a 6-page discussion of very advanced photographers. I think sometimes we need to understand that this is not about us, but about photography.

 

[Derrel]

A Ford pinto from 1977 is the equivalent of a 2019 Ferrari Formula1 car. Or at least that is what a certain poster here seems to think, that the machine has absolutely no bearing on the final results. I am here to say that that is poppycock, which is a polite way of saying total bullspit.

A long long time ago back in the film days I used to sell photo and video gear at retail.I can tell you from actual experience with hundreds of people that the camera makes a huge difference, especially to beginners.
In my experience, it is the intermediate photographer and the advanced amateur who can benefit the most from advanced camera design features

The more experience you have, the easier you can work around camera limitations. For the experienced photographer the camera is of less importance than it is to a beginner. To say that the camera makes no difference is a statement that is born out of ignorance of what beginner photographers need the most.

I have seen a few YouTube videos where experienced professional photographers make good pictures using even toy cameras. For people who do not have a vast reservoir of photographic knowledge and skill, a camera that has highly automated features,and which works with extreme ease and with high focus accuracy is a godsend.

The idea that any camera is as good as any other for a beginner is simply a falsehood. This is based upon 2 years of selling cameras to people, most of whom would be considered beginning to intermediate. I can tell you from actual experience selling at least one to five cameras a day for two years that the camera is actually of quite a high level of importance to beginners. To an experienced photographer, the camera is of little consequence.

Once again I am basing my statements on 2 years of retail selling of cameras over the counter to real people,not my own opinion. Some opinions are based upon actual experience, while others are based upon conjecture. The idea that all cameras are created equal as far as beginners are concerned is ludicrous. I have been involved with photography for over 45 years now and I have had cameras made in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1990s, 2000 and my most recent camera was made in 2012. I can say with a high degree of assurance that for a beginner the correct choice of camera is as important as anything.

For example let us take a Nikon D90 and compare its performance with a Nikon D800. The D90 has a fairly narrow dynamic range and almost no highlight recovery is possible if you overexpose more than one stop. the Nikon D800 on the other hand has an amazingly malleable file, with an amazing dynamic range. I know of two beginning level shooters who were saddled with their old d90s and one is about 75 years old. He claimed over and over that film was better than digital. About 6 months ago he bought himself a Nikon d3400 and was amazed at the quality of digital. My ex-wife had a D90 for about 5 years... It was not that good a picture maker, and she replaced it with a d3300, which is much better.

 

[Derrel]

What could be less important than a camera? Photography is all about creativity and technique. The camera just captures what the photographer saw and did. They pretty much all do that. Choose something that appeals and go make some images.

Just so you can see what was stated earlier. I disagree with this post wholeheartedly.

What could be less important than the camera? The camera is actually quite important... We are talking about beginners here.There are several cameras that are known as good machines. The Tech Radar site which I linked to earlier,specifically lists the Canon t7i and the Nikon D3500 as being exceptional machines for the beginning photographer. I would say that the Canon EOS M50 is a horrible camera for a beginning shooter.

 

[fmw]

What could be less important than a camera? Photography is all about creativity and technique. The camera just captures what the photographer saw and did. They pretty much all do that. Choose something that appeals and go make some images.

Just so you can see what was stated earlier. I disagree with this post wholeheartedly.

What could be less important than the camera? The camera is actually quite important... We are talking about beginners here.There are several cameras that are known as good machines. The Tech Radar site which I linked to earlier,specifically lists the Canon t7i and the Nikon D3500 as being exceptional machines for the beginning photographer. I would say that the Canon EOS M50 is a horrible camera for a beginning shooter.

Derrel, you are far too hung up on equipment. Equipment is a collection of tools for the photographer. What the beginner needs is a camera that provides for adjustable aperture, shutter speed and focus. You can add more capability to include more photographic subjects and techniques to the mix. But as a learning tool what is important is adjustable aperture, shutter speed and focus. Of course, you have the right to disagree all you like. If everyone thought the same way it would be a boring world.

By the way, I did have a 1975 Ford Pinto for a while. I bought it to take me places I wanted to go and it served that purpose well. A Ferrari would have just cost more to get the job done and probably wouldn't have taken well to the bumper to bumper traffic common in that area. I don't think a beginner should be hung up on things like motor drive speed and metering modes. Those things can come later when the basics are out of the way.

 

[photo1x1.com]

What could be less important than a camera? Photography is all about creativity and technique. The camera just captures what the photographer saw and did. They pretty much all do that. Choose something that appeals and go make some images.

Just so you can see what was stated earlier. I disagree with this post wholeheartedly.

What could be less important than the camera? The camera is actually quite important... We are talking about beginners here.There are several cameras that are known as good machines. The Tech Radar site which I linked to earlier,specifically lists the Canon t7i and the Nikon D3500 as being exceptional machines for the beginning photographer. I would say that the Canon EOS M50 is a horrible camera for a beginning shooter.

Derrel, you are far too hung up on equipment. Equipment is a collection of tools for the photographer. What the beginner needs is a camera that provides for adjustable aperture, shutter speed and focus. You can add more capability to include more photographic subjects and techniques to the mix. But as a learning tool what is important is adjustable aperture, shutter speed and focus. Of course, you have the right to disagree all you like. If everyone thought the same way it would be a boring world.

By the way, I did have a 1975 Ford Pinto for a while. I bought it to take me places I wanted to go and it served that purpose well. A Ferrari would have just cost more to get the job done and probably wouldn't have taken well to the bumper to bumper traffic common in that area. I don't think a beginner should be hung up on things like motor drive speed and metering modes. Those things can come later when the basics are out of the way.

Later? How many cameras do you think a beginner will purchase per year?
Again: what is wrong with purchasing the best equipment for the money you spend, and what is wrong with rather getting a camera that focuses 60% of the images correctly rather than 10%?
To be honest, much of this is a really arrogant discussion.

 

[Derrel]

FMW... I hope you enjoyed your Ford Pinto.I had a 1979 Mazda RX7. I have shot with a 1950s model Argus c3 and have owned and shot with the $8,000 Nikon d3x. Over a period of about 20 years I have bought 11 different DSLR cameras : three from Canon,three from Fuji, and the rest from Nikon itself. I know what I'm talking about. Like I said I used to sell cameras for two years. I know how the camera affects the beginning photographer. The best camera is far more productive for the beginner than a camera that has numerous issues. Choosing the right camera is actually important.for the beginning shooter, the right camera makes a big difference.

If we were to go by your logic,any pair of shoes would be equal to any other pair of shoes. Any house would do . Any job would do . They are all the same, unimportant, right? The flaws in your logic are quite clear. Best of luck to you.

 

[fmw]

FMW... I hope you enjoyed your Ford Pinto.I had a 1979 Mazda RX7. I have shot with a 1950s model Argus c3 and have owned and shot with the $8,000 Nikon d3x. Over a period of about 20 years I have bought 11 different DSLR cameras : three from Canon,three from Fuji, and the rest from Nikon itself. I know what I'm talking about. Like I said I used to sell cameras for two years. I know how the camera affects the beginning photographer. The best camera is far more productive for the beginner than a camera that has numerous issues. Choosing the right camera is actually important.for the beginning shooter, the right camera makes a big difference.

If we were to go by your logic,any pair of shoes would be equal to any other pair of shoes. Any house would do . Any job would do . They are all the same, unimportant, right? The flaws in your logic are quite clear. Best of luck to you.

Sorry Derrel, your logic is faulty. Any car will do for learning how to drive. I learned on a Riley which had a stick shift. Shoes don't have a learning curve. Everybody knows how to use them. Also you make an assumption that I recommend spending as little as possible on beginner camera. All I said is that it doesn't matter what camera a beginner uses as long as it is controllable enough to teach the basic techniques. If they want to learn on a $8000 camera that is fine with me. My only point is that it isn't necessary. We are talking around each other.

 

[limr]

Can y'all just agree to disagree now? This is about 2-3 posts away from turning into "NUH-UH! "YEAH HUH!"

In other news, I now really want an RX7.

 

[fmw]

Can y'all just agree to disagree now? This is about 2-3 posts away from turning into "NUH-UH! "YEAH HUH!"

In other news, I now really want an RX7.

No problem. Consider me pulled out. Obviously opinions contrary to the forum norm aren't welcome here. I'll spend my time elsewhere.

 

[limr]

Can y'all just agree to disagree now? This is about 2-3 posts away from turning into "NUH-UH! "YEAH HUH!"

In other news, I now really want an RX7.

No problem. Consider me pulled out. Obviously opinions contrary to the forum norm aren't welcome here. I'll spend my time elsewhere.

Oh for heaven's sake. Of course differing opinions are welcome. But when two members are just going back and forth essentially repeating themselves, there comes a point where you have to agree to disagree. You each have firm, strong opinions on this and neither one is going to budge. Is anything really going to be accomplished by continuing along in the same vein?

 

[terri]

Can y'all just agree to disagree now? This is about 2-3 posts away from turning into "NUH-UH! "YEAH HUH!"

In other news, I now really want an RX7.

No problem. Consider me pulled out. Obviously opinions contrary to the forum norm aren't welcome here. I'll spend my time elsewhere.

Well, I sure hope it doesn't come to that. As someone who has been here on TPF as long as you have, you likely know when a healthy discussion has devolved into repetition of certain points, and little is likely to be gained. You're a very good photographer and have tons of info to share - so I hope you continue to do so.

Frankly, when the OP started saying he was getting too much info from what he perceives as more advanced photographers, posting in the Beginner's forum, it should have sent up a flare. There's no harm in asking to have one's thread closed, once an OP feels he or she has gotten enough info. There's always room for expanded discussion, of course, and generally we like to leave threads open. But we may face the risk of maybe dragging stuff on too long.

Let's all take a collective deep breath, remind ourselves that many of us may be dealing with Covid-induced cabin fever, and be willing to let stuff go. Peace out.