What starter DSLR should I buy? Need quick shutter and good in low light

[zollabea]

I'm researching purchasing a starter DSLR and was looking on some feedback on which models to consider. I've used SLR film before, then switched to digital point and shoot, but I'm ready for a real camera again.

The most important feature is that it HAS to have a quick shutter, meaning, if it has Live View, I have to be able to shut off live view and sleep mode so that it's ready to snap quickly, for capturing the moment (kids, pets, etc). This is the one thing I can't stand about my point and shoot.

The other feature I'm looking for is the ability to take great photos in low and natural light. I'm not asking for a miracle in my price range ($500 ish - actually looking at refurbished where I can get a $500 camera for $300-$400), but I do want something that is the best in the starter class for this.

All the other stuff is not as important. I'm doing my own research, but it is amazinginly difficult to sort though all the marketing statments to get down to the nitty gritty of which cameras have what I am looking for.

 

[KmH]

Only the most basic DSLR's are in your price range (refurbished $375):

The Canon EOS Rebel T3 12.2 MP CMOS Digital SLR with 18-55mm IS II Lens and EOS HD Movie Mode (Black)

The Nikon D3100 14.2MP Digital SLR Camera with 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF-S DX VR Nikkor Zoom Lens

As far as low light performance, I suspect you'll discover the lens is the limiting factor.

From a cost/performance perspective I would recommend an additional refurbished lens for each;
Nikon 50mm f/1.8G AF-S NIKKOR FX Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras

This Canon lens has pretty low build quality, focuses kind of slow, but it has pretty good optics.
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Camera Lens

 

[zollabea]

Thanks! Those are the main two I've been looking at. Why is the lens the limiting factor...if you don't mind explaining?

So, you would say the Nikon has the faster focus of the two? Do these both have the ability to turn of the "live view" and sleep so that it's always ready to go?

Everything else being equal, I would probably choose the Canon, just because of the movie option. But that's just a tie breaker. The other features are more important. I won't be able to afford the additional lens right now. Anything will be a step up from my Nikon Coolpix. I've had it for 10 years, and it's still going strong. It takes good pictures, but I'm tired of missing shots.

 

[Derrel]

The kit lens is "slow" in terms of the size of its light-collecting ability. At the 55mm setting, it admits a nominal f/5.6 value. F4 is twice as much light as f/5.6. f/2.8 is twice what f/4 lets in. f/2 admits twice as much as f/2.8. F/1.8 admits about 1/3 stop more than f/2. Sooo, as you can see, a "kit zoom",like the 18-55m does not collect much light. That limits the focusing system's ability to focus fast and reliably.

A 50mm 1.8 admits a HUGE amount more light than the kit zoom does at the 50 to 55mm lengths...the Nikkor 50/1.8 AF-S G is a "new", aspherical element design with a built-in, high-quality ultrasonic focusing motor, and is a $225 lens, roughly. It has full-time manual override by just grabbing the focusing ring at ANY time, and is a very new design, and is very sharp, and has excellent coatings and excellent resistance to sunflare. I own one...it's a very good 50mm.

The Canon 50mm EF 1.8 is a very cheap,old design, with a very low-grade focusing motor, and a clunky switch for manual or auto focus, which MUST BE disengaged to override AF...it's a verrrrrry cheap design....very old, and wayyyyy out of date. When shot toward light sources, this thing flares terribly--it can at times flare almost the entire width of the picture with a big, green sun-flare. Yeech. I used to own one of these...it is a mechanical mess, and is the equivalent of a beater 1991 Toyota. It "gets you there" sure...but it's...a joke...it is sharp, yes, but don't point it at the sun. Or expect that it will be able to focus reliably in low light, especially on a low-end body...the autofocus on this thing is noisy,loud,slow,m and erratic. But hey...it's $109.

 

[zollabea]

Thanks for the information! At this point, anything is going to feel like a million bucks after struggling with a point and shoot for 10 years. I think I'm going to go with the Nikon D3100. This will keep me happy for awhile, and when I can afford it, I will consider upgrading, or getting a better lens at least. Thanks so much for all your input. I appreciate it!

 

[KmH]

:thumbup: NIKON :thumbup:

 

[texkam]

^ Yes, Nikon for a "starter". Canon for the pros. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[im2c0ol]

Yes canon for the pros, but Nikon starter kit not bad. But picking 2nd lens upgrade on Nikon side most lens seem pricier. So my vote goes Canon, lens a bit cheaper nicer/pro look too.

 

[bratkinson]

Being a loyal Canon shooter, I'd suggest a used, or better yet, refurb, T4i Rebel. It's a bit out of your price range, I know. But your interest in low light photography is the basis of my suggestion. While a used T3i might better fit your budget, the difference in ISO performance indicated in the camera specs tell me the T4i will do better. Note that I neither have nor have had either of these cameras.

My first DSLR was a Canon 30D and kit glass. Between no-flash photography indoors (the popup flash on most cameras will light up about 10' and that's it) and not enough pixels for substantial cropping, I quickly moved to a 60D. That improved both situations substantially. The 60D was a good starting point for low light, and fast focusing under low light conditions. Based on the specs, a T4i seems to me as capable as a 60D for low light shooting.

Next comes lens considerations. You might be able to find a good used T4i with an EF-S 18-55 f3.5-5.6 IS STM lens as a reasonable starting point. For improved low light capabilities, however, the 50mm f1.8 (f1.4 version, even better) will give good results.

Be sure to check out Canons' web site for refurb equipment. Some retail stores also offer refurb equipment, which may be either factory-refurb or store-refurb. The difference is the guarantee. Online retailers such as KEH, Adorama or B&H also have used equipment departments with very attractive prices. Ebay can also be a good source for used equipment, but be exceedingly careful to buy only from reputable sellers (rating at least 500 for individuals, 5000 for retailers...my guidlines) that have at least 99% rating...again my own criteria. Craigslist can also provide a super deal nearby, as well.

 

[djacobox372]

D5000 with 35mm f1.8G... probably run you about $400 on the ebay/used market.

 

[Solarflare]

^ Yes, Nikon for a "starter". Canon for the pros. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Ugh.

If such a stupid posting earns a "like" then I really want the option to not see "likes" at all.

Theres nothing wrong with Canon for starters and Nikons for pros.

 

[David8]

^ Yes, Nikon for a "starter". Canon for the pros. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Ugh.

If such a stupid posting earns a "like" then I really want the option to not see "likes" at all.

Theres nothing wrong with Canon for starters and Nikons for pros.

I agree! THIS post deserves a like. Nothing at all wrong with Nikon!

 

[jaomul]

^ Yes, Nikon for a "starter". Canon for the pros. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Ugh.

If such a stupid posting earns a "like" then I really want the option to not see "likes" at all.

Theres nothing wrong with Canon for starters and Nikons for pros.

Lifes to short to have no sense of humour

 

[TCampbell]

Keep in mind that the DSLR (Canon or Nikon) offer two different modes with respect to focusing and shutter priority.

The default mode is that the camera should NOT take the shot until it can confirm that it's been able to lock focus on at least one of the focus points. There is another mode which prioritizes take the shot WHEN you press the shutter button completely (whether the lens was focused on anything or not.) The button has a half-press (which usually activates metering and focus -- although you can change that) and then pressing the button completely tells the camera to take the shot.

The notion that a camera should be able to take a shot even if nothing is in focus was done for sports and action photographers who knew that what they wanted to shoot was in focus even if the camera couldn't confirm it or thought you wanted to lock focus on a distracting element in the frame (not your intended subject.) They needed to be able to force the camera to fire at the "decisive moment" to capture the shot... and that's what the mode does.

That's a long way of saying... a DSLR _will_ take the photo when you want it to ... with no delays at all. You just have to put it in the right mode. Most people prefer the mode that requires the focus is locked because you'll get more "keepers" that way.

There are two attributes that help speed that focus process along...

On any camera, a lens with a lower focal ratio can detect focus faster than a lens with a higher focal ratio (that the numbers after the f/__._ on the lens... the lower the number, the better. Sometimes the numbers are listed as a range such as f/3.5-5.6 which means the focal ratio depends on how much you zoom in.) An f/2.8 lens gathers significantly more light and will be able to lock focus faster than an f/5.6 lens. The less light the camera has, the longer it takes it to confirm focus.

The second attribute is the speed of the focus motors themselves. Canon's puts the tag "USM" (UltraSonic Motor) on lenses with their faster focus motors. On Nikon, they use the tag "SWM" (Silent Wave Motor) to indicate their lenses with the faster, snappier focus motors. There are some variant designs of these, but if the lens is neither USM nor SWM then it doesn't have fast motors.

If you look THROUGH the viewfinder (do not use the "live view" screen on the back) then you'll get much faster and more responsive focusing. That's because that allows the mirror in the camera to bounce light into special focus sensors (which usually live on the floor of the sensor body and not on the sensor itself) called "phase detect" focus sensors. Phase detection is MUCH faster than "contrast detection" focus (which is what all point & shoot cameras use.) But phase detection requires separate dedicated focus sensors, which requires a reflex mirror -- which requires a camera body large enough to house a mirror... and point & shoot cameras don't have any of that.

Regardless of whether you choose a Canon vs Nikon DSLR, all bodies can nail focus in a split second... IF the camera is equipped with a lens that has a low focal ratio and a fast focusing motor and also if you're not using "live view" mode.

Bodies with a higher number of "cross type" phase detect points (as opposed to the standard single-axis phase detect points) are even faster still (midrange and pro bodies usually have lots of these... entry-level bodies usually have just one cross-type point in the center.) Although the Canon T4i and T5i (which are entry-level bodies) have 9 autofocus points and all 9 are "cross type".

 

[David8]

Keep in mind that the DSLR (Canon or Nikon) offer two different modes with respect to focusing and shutter priority.

The default mode is that the camera should NOT take the shot until it can confirm that it's been able to lock focus on at least one of the focus points. There is another mode which prioritizes take the shot WHEN you press the shutter button completely (whether the lens was focused on anything or not.) The button has a half-press (which usually activates metering and focus -- although you can change that) and then pressing the button completely tells the camera to take the shot.

The notion that a camera should be able to take a shot even if nothing is in focus was done for sports and action photographers who knew that what they wanted to shoot was in focus even if the camera couldn't confirm it or thought you wanted to lock focus on a distracting element in the frame (not your intended subject.) They needed to be able to force the camera to fire at the "decisive moment" to capture the shot... and that's what the mode does.

That's a long way of saying... a DSLR _will_ take the photo when you want it to ... with no delays at all. You just have to put it in the right mode. Most people prefer the mode that requires the focus is locked because you'll get more "keepers" that way.

There are two attributes that help speed that focus process along...

On any camera, a lens with a lower focal ratio can detect focus faster than a lens with a higher focal ratio (that the numbers after the f/__._ on the lens... the lower the number, the better. Sometimes the numbers are listed as a range such as f/3.5-5.6 which means the focal ratio depends on how much you zoom in.) An f/2.8 lens gathers significantly more light and will be able to lock focus faster than an f/5.6 lens. The less light the camera has, the longer it takes it to confirm focus.

The second attribute is the speed of the focus motors themselves. Canon's puts the tag "USM" (UltraSonic Motor) on lenses with their faster focus motors. On Nikon, they use the tag "SWM" (Silent Wave Motor) to indicate their lenses with the faster, snappier focus motors. There are some variant designs of these, but if the lens is neither USM nor SWM then it doesn't have fast motors.

If you look THROUGH the viewfinder (do not use the "live view" screen on the back) then you'll get much faster and more responsive focusing. That's because that allows the mirror in the camera to bounce light into special focus sensors (which usually live on the floor of the sensor body and not on the sensor itself) called "phase detect" focus sensors. Phase detection is MUCH faster than "contrast detection" focus (which is what all point & shoot cameras use.) But phase detection requires separate dedicated focus sensors, which requires a reflex mirror -- which requires a camera body large enough to house a mirror... and point & shoot cameras don't have any of that.

Regardless of whether you choose a Canon vs Nikon DSLR, all bodies can nail focus in a split second... IF the camera is equipped with a lens that has a low focal ratio and a fast focusing motor and also if you're not using "live view" mode.

Bodies with a higher number of "cross type" phase detect points (as opposed to the standard single-axis phase detect points) are even faster still (midrange and pro bodies usually have lots of these... entry-level bodies usually have just one cross-type point in the center.) Although the Canon T4i and T5i (which are entry-level bodies) have 9 autofocus points and all 9 are "cross type".

Good post. Cleared up for me why it focuses slower with Live View. Thanks.

And the entry Nikon (D3100) has 11 auto focus points also.