Who has seen ...

Osmer_Toby · Jun 10, 2004

Some of the reasons that are used to set a certain weapon aside as an assault weapon are ridiculous

your bayonet example is one very specific example of a stupid codicil- using this as the basis for the argument that it should be ok to own any assault weapon is ridiculous in itself. just because some stupid laws have been passed does not mean every subsequent related law is as baseless.

Osmer_Toby · Jun 10, 2004

I havent heard anyone rally to ban box cutters

the box cutters became highly effective in very specific circumstances. in those circumstances, there damn well has been a rally to ban boxcutters. been through airport security lately?

Chase · Jun 10, 2004

Osmer_Toby said:
Society is in the process of breaking down for a number of reasons, but I don't believe owning a gun is a major contributing factor. Gun use may increase along with the problems a society faces, but the gun use is a result of the societal issues, not a cause of the societal issues

Click to expand...

been to the inner city recently? for responsible people like you and me, owning a gun does not contribute to the rapidly accelerating decay of our society. in the hands of those who could not care less what their actions portend, access to guns is a very real contributing factor to that decay. ask any beat cop who works the inner city. every single damn one of them are sure to tell you they favor handgun control.

whether you argue a cancer is a cause or a symptom, does it not make sense to cut it out before it metastizes further?

I work in and live near the inner city, and I used to spend every day of the week driving all over downtown Los Angeles to make a living. In those areas, I was more scared of my car breaking down and finding myself the victim of a beating than of being shot.

As far as every cop favoring handgun control, I believe that is a blantantly false statement. Here is an excerpt from a web site on the issue:

when the National Association of Chiefs of Police conducted a mail survey of 15,000 sheriffs and police chiefs in 1996, 93 percent said they approved of law-abiding citizens arming themselves for self-defense.

In regards to your cancer scenario, although I don't think it is a good comparison for this debate, does cutting out the cancer do anything towards the overall cure for cancer?

Chase · Jun 10, 2004

And for a little more information:

1993 Poll-Southern States Police Benevolent Association

The Southern States Police Benevolent Association became the nation's first major law enforcement group to conduct a professional, scientific survey of its membership. The 1993 poll of nearly 11,000 rank-and-file peace officers by the SSPBA found these results, summarized from the nearly 100-page analysis of the survey, including cross-tabulations, charts and graphs:

Only 1.1% listed firearms as the most pressing cause of violent crime, compared to

¥ breakdown of the criminal justice system (3.8%)

¥ unemployment (4.3%)

¥ early release/lack of punishment (10.2%)

¥ decline of family values (10.6%) and

¥ drugs (45%)

63.6% agreed the Federal Government should act to reduce violence on TV.

65.3% agreed that stricter gun control laws would be the least effective way to reduce violent crime.

70.9% said stricter handgun laws would not reduce the overall number of violent crimes.

82.3% supported an instant background check at the gun shop for handgun purchases.

86.5% agreed that a waiting period to purchase handguns affects only law-abiding citizens, and that criminals will still be able to obtain handguns illegally whenever they want to.

89.5% agreed that the entire criminal justice system needs major reform.

90.1% agreed that the U.S. Constitution guarantees every law-abiding citizen the right to own a gun.

95.8% opposed banning all guns for persons other than the police or military.

96.4% agreed that people have the right to own a gun for self-protection.

By three to one they favored an instant check over a waiting period for gun purchases.

1997 Poll-San Diego Police Officers Association

The San Diego Police Officers Association, in the May, 1997 issue of its magazine The Informant, reported the following results of a gun control survey of its law enforcement officers:

82.1% of respondents do NOT favor an assault weapons ban.

82.2% do NOT support a limit to magazine capacity.

84.9% SUPPORT law-abiding citizens' right to carry a concealed firearm.

87.1% believe gun ownership by private citizens INCREASES public safety.

92.1% SUPPORT the instant background check.

92.1% said more gun laws will NOT decrease violent crime.

95.6% believe criminal use of a gun should result in mandatory sentences with no plea bargaining.

98.5% do NOT support gun buy-back programs.

99.2% believe in streamlining the criminal justice system.

99.2% believe in the death penalty.

Based upon this information, it would appear my initial belief that policemen would be fairly evenly split on the debate is incorrect. Based solely upon this limited information, it would appear that the majority of police officers support the right of citizens to bear arms.

Chase · Jun 10, 2004

Osmer_Toby said:
Some of the reasons that are used to set a certain weapon aside as an assault weapon are ridiculous

Click to expand...

your bayonet example is one very specific example of a stupid codicil- using this as the basis for the argument that it should be ok to own any assault weapon is ridiculous in itself. just because some stupid laws have been passed does not mean every subsequent related law is as baseless.

I believe she was simply using this as an illustrative example of the lack of a solid foundation for many of these "assault weapons" to be singled out when compared to nearly identical weapons that were not included in the ban. I further believe that the point she was attempting to make was valid. In no way did she state the bayonet example as a basis of why it should be ok to own any assault weapon and to call your version of what she said "ridiculous" was uncalled for.

terri · Jun 10, 2004

"Glorified G"

got a gun, fact i got two
that's ok man, cuz i love god

glorified version of a pellet gun
feels so manly, when armed

glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun

don't think, dumb is strength
never shot at a living thing

glorified version of a pellet gun
feels so manly, when armed

glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a...

always keep it loaded
always keep it loaded
always keep it loaded
kindred to be an american...

life comes...i can feel your heart...
life comes...i can feel your heart through your neck...
life comes...i can feel your heart through your neck...
like some...i can steal your heart from your neck...
glorified...glorified...

-Eddie Vedder, Pearl Jam

Sharkbait · Jun 10, 2004

When I was a kid, I bought a Ruger 10-22. It's a small calibre (.22) squirrel gun. Typical small bore rifle--semi-auto, 10-round clip, heavy wooden stock. Something you'd buy a woodsy 12 year old at wal-mart or the local hunting/fishing store. I put a nice, but inexpensive bushnell scope on it and used it to hunt squirrels, bullfrogs, and the occasional snapping turtle.

A couple years later, I ordered a new stock kit and a couple accessories for it. Now that exact same rifle has a black carbon fiber body with a folding wire stock, a military style sling strap, and either a 30-round bananna clip or a 50-round drum magazine (like the old tommyguns used to use).

My point is, now it looks like what most people would consider an "assault rifle". It's just the same damn squirrel gun that many 12 year olds in the rural midwest have. Should it be banned on looks alone? Its performance hasn't changed one whit.

photogoddess · Jun 10, 2004

Osmer_Toby said:
I havent heard anyone rally to ban box cutters

Click to expand...

the box cutters became highly effective in very specific circumstances. in those circumstances, there damn well has been a rally to ban boxcutters. been through airport security lately?

Actually, I have been through airport security lately. Since 9-11, they have changed the rules about what you can and can't bring on a plane pretty dramatically. Besides banning box cutters on board, you can not bring metal nail files, tweezers or screw drivers on the plane. My point is that there still isn't a nationwide rally to ban box cutters overall despite the facts of 9-11 hijackings.

photogoddess · Jun 10, 2004

California is pretty strict about buying and selling guns and I actually happen to believe that background checks are a good idea. I'm not even that opposed to waiting periods but it's getting really silly. It used to be that I could show my hunting license (or my hubby's military discharge papers), pay for a gun and pick it up in 15 days. Now, I have to take a gun safety class despite proof that I have already taken more than one, wait the 15 days and buy a trigger lock no matter how many I already have. My husband as a former member of the military also has to take the class since his proof of 6 years in the armed forces is no longer acceptable evidence that a he has learned how to safely handle a firearm.

Despite all of the gun control legislation, the criminals are still getting guns illegally. Since our leaders can't seem to figure out how to stop that, they pass more legislation. This is legislation that does nothing but make it harder for law abiding citizens to buy firearms. To me, it's nothing more than window dressing designed to make the uninformed feel comfortable that their leaders are "actually" doing something.

I know that many people have strong feelings on the subject and I can respect that. However, respect is a two way street and the people that disagree with me need to respect my views as well without attacking. Thanks to our founding fathers, I have as much of a right to arm myself as everyone has to have and state their opinions.

oriecat · Jun 10, 2004

I'm proud to know all you people. I think everyone has been very nice and respectful and I'm amazed this thread got to 9 pages without exploding considering the volatility of the subject. And with that I just want to say.... sex romp