Why don't people like program mode?

[usayit]

Chances are, you'll miss more masterpieces locked in P mode.

I highly doubt that.... P suggests an exposure.. the photographer makes the final decision which can include exposure compensation.

Program mode is just a freakin tool.. use it wisely it can perform just as well as any other tool/mode.


For once... I agree with Ken Rockwelll (gasp!)


All this talk and no one has made a big deal about relying on matrix metering versus Spot or center!!!!!! sheesh Or even ignore technology... and use a selenium handheld.. lol

 

[Senor Hound]

For once... I agree with Ken Rockwelll (gasp!)

No doubt! The guy might be as loud as a motorbike, but he still takes neat photos. This isn't his opinion, as much as him telling you how he takes what he takes (which if his photos are really in-camera, I'm impressed).

I still don't understand using manual mode, while using the camera's light meter. To not trust one part of a camera while trusting the other makes NO sense to me.

 

[Early]

I highly doubt that.... P suggests an exposure.. the photographer makes the final decision which can include exposure compensation.

Program mode is just a freakin tool.. use it wisely it can perform just as well as any other tool/mode.

Here's my argument, usayit. If you're in P mode and you suddenly want a smaller aperture, how long will that take you?

P mode's good for noobs, but once you read the book, any book, you're better off in one of the other modes. (I always preferred A mode, switching to manual for extreme lighting.)

 

[table1349]

Haven't had a chance to read all the responses.

I've been photographing for 25 years, usually all manual, but I respect modern technology. I've seen P next to the A and S modes (both of which I use as well) and I've also wondered if I'm missing out on some good technology...

... but I'm afraid to ask, the mighty Battou might come down on me. I wouldn't want to be considered a noob, an idiot, or worse.

Edit: or JerryPH for that matter...

30 + years ago when I started with the lowly Nikon F, P mode meant hurry up and get the shot and then go find a convenient bush.

There is nothing wrong with technology if you are controlling it. If however you do not understand the technology and let it control you then that is what photography forum boards are for, to answer questions like: "Why is the sun always overexposed when I try to take a picture of it at noon on a cloudless day. I'm using a UV filter?"

 

[Mav]

Here's my argument, usayit. If you're in P mode and you suddenly want a smaller aperture, how long will that take you?

P mode's good for noobs, but once you read the book, any book, you're better off in one of the other modes. (I always preferred A mode, switching to manual for extreme lighting.)

Like I mentioned above, one swing of the control wheel on Nikon DSLRs and you go to "P*" mode which allows you to get a faster shutter speed / larger aperture for action or portraits, or the other way for a slower shutter speed / stopped down aperture for more depth of field while maintaining the same exposure. Instantaneous and very easy.

 

[Early]

Like I mentioned above, one swing of the control wheel on Nikon DSLRs and you go to "P*" mode which allows you to get a faster shutter speed / larger aperture for action or portraits, or the other way for a slower shutter speed / stopped down aperture for more depth of field while maintaining the same exposure. Instantaneous and very easy.

That's something I didn't know. That makes those cameras just as fast as using A or S mode on other cameras, right?

 

[usayit]

Like I mentioned above, one swing of the control wheel on Nikon DSLRs and you go to "P*" mode which allows you to get a faster shutter speed / larger aperture for action or portraits, or the other way for a slower shutter speed / stopped down aperture for more depth of field while maintaining the same exposure. Instantaneous and very easy.

The same with Canon...

Exactly what camera are you using Early?

 

[Early]

The same with Canon...

Exactly what camera are you using Early?

I've used the Nikon FA, N90s, Maxxum 700si, 7xi, 9000, x700, probably a few others that I can't remember right now.

 

[usayit]

That's something I didn't know. That makes those cameras just as fast as using A or S mode on other cameras, right?

pretty much... the difference between A and P is mainly in the thought process of the photographer.

In P mode, the camera makes a best guess at the exposure. You can "shift" that settings through all the combinations of Aperture and Shutter settings that obtain the same exposure. The thought process of the photographer is in terms of "relative to the camera's chosen combination".

In Av mode, the photographer thinks in terms of absolute... aperture. I'd like to shoot a series of photos at an f/5.6 for the scene of my son sitting on this here bench. The camera's meter determines Shutter setting for a variety of lighting situations at an aperture of f/5.6. The photographer's mind set is in terms of "story telling" (f/11, f/16 for example), "subject matter" (f/2, f/4, f/5.6), or "I don't care" (f/8 and be there).

In Tv shutter mode, the photographer's thought process is focused on motions of subjects. I'll leave it at that as I don't use shutter priority that often.

To actually change the exposure, you set exposure compensation + or - for 1 to 3 stops.

Folks... what is important to realize is that the final decision is still being made by the photographer. Control is still in the photographers hands and these are just simply tools in a tool box. Even Full auto is useful to a certain extent..... it still allows for a decent photo.


I still think it is strange that all this hoopla over this and no one has failed to even mention matrix, versus spot metering (or center weight). Some of us shoot with cameras that are so simple that you get one metering mode with choice of Aperture or full Manual only. Hell mine doesn't even AF.... I actually find more enjoyment out of the simplicity kinda like driving a sports car with manual transmissions.

I do go home with misses though.... but I have no one to blame except myself. Its part of the enjoyment and education. What's the most interesting point of a game??? the fact that you can win AND LOSE. Of course, there are times for that large toolbox as well.

 

[usayit]

I've used the Nikon FA, N90s, Maxxum 700si, 7xi, 9000, x700, probably a few others that I can't remember right now.

I own the Minolta 7000 which was the first successfully marketed AF SLR (first attempt was Pentax ME-F.. own that too). But I digress.

IIRC one of the most advertised features of the 7000 was the ability to program shift. Your 9000 was the replacement for the 7000 and it too has the same feature. I'm actually surprised you were not familiar with the "P" mode's ability to shift....

 

[firecrow]

The main problem with these automatic modes is that they don't give you enough control over the image and besides the automatic exposure is always set wrong you will either end up with too many blown out highlights or you will have too much noise in the shadow detail. What highlights are OK to blow out is totally dependent on the subject and how can the camera "know" that in advance? Generally as much detail as you can keep in the highlights, this will improve the overall quality of your image.

Manual is actually not that hard, besides metering what you can do is look at the histogram see if there are problems, then adjust and reshoot. (or prepare beforehand with a moving subject).

I've had success with the "expose to the right" method discussed here:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml

which basically means just expose as much as you can w/o blowing out highlights (OR having color shifts if one channel blows out ahead of the others), and fix the exposure and the tonal relationships you really want in postprocessing. The better the signal-to-noise ratio, the more freedom you will have in postprocessing.

also -- always shoot RAW -- if you underexpose by one stop or so at low ISO, it is easy to fix.

Hope this helps!

 

[Antithesis]

The main problem with these automatic modes is that they don't give you enough control over the image and besides the automatic exposure is always set wrong you will either end up with too many blown out highlights or you will have too much noise in the shadow detail. What highlights are OK to blow out is totally dependent on the subject and how can the camera "know" that in advance? Generally as much detail as you can keep in the highlights, this will improve the overall quality of your image.

Manual is actually not that hard, besides metering what you can do is look at the histogram see if there are problems, then adjust and reshoot. (or prepare beforehand with a moving subject).

I've had success with the "expose to the right" method discussed here:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml

which basically means just expose as much as you can w/o blowing out highlights (OR having color shifts if one channel blows out ahead of the others), and fix the exposure and the tonal relationships you really want in postprocessing. The better the signal-to-noise ratio, the more freedom you will have in postprocessing.

also -- always shoot RAW -- if you underexpose by one stop or so at low ISO, it is easy to fix.

Hope this helps!

Exposure compensation used in junction with Av, Tv or P modes can be more efficient than manual. If your in a situation where you can't be messing around with your settings half the time, then the automatic modes are very useful. One of my friends who's been shooting professionally for four years now uses Av mode almost exclusively. His images are of stellar quality as well.

If you need to take four thousand shots in a night, it can save you quite a bit of energy if you don't have to futs with your camera every 10 seconds. The same goes for shooting RAW. If you only have ten minutes to take an awesome picture that's absolutely perfect, then shoot in RAW as a safeguard, but otherwise shoot in Jpeg to save time in post. If you spend 30% of your time converting and processing RAW images that won't look that much better than jpegs straight from the camera, you should assess what the real benefits are.

 

[Mav]

Right, just use exposure compensation if the shot review, blinky display, or RGB histograms don't look right. For most daylight shooting I leave my D40 & D80 parked at -0.7EV and they're fine, but I adjust as needed on the fly to save time later. Turn on Auto Contrast (Tone Compensation on Nikons) and it'll make sure that you never drop shadow details so much that they can't be recovered. In contrasty scenes, it'll automatically lower contrast to avoid getting blowouts, and the opposite for low contrast scenes - it'll try to keep the histograms as filled as possible so that you're using as many levels as possible, just as it says to do in that article. It's built into the cameras (or at least Nikons) more or less. You definitely don't need to be shooting RAW just to push a photo by one stop either. That's nothing but a myth. Highlight recovery yes, but on digital you should be paying attention to that already with shot review, blinky displays, RGB histograms, or whatever you've got.

I have some recent photos of a Chicago sunrise and sunset. Light was changing rapidly, and exposure was very difficult, but I got it. Some people thought I surely must have been shooting in RAW and doing HDR merges. Nope! Just good settings, JPEG, and some very mild tweaking with the right software afterwards!

 

[Early]

I'm actually surprised you were not familiar with the "P" mode's ability to shift....

I don't remember if I was familiar with it back then. My X 700 didn't have it, and my FA doesn't. I was always completely happy with the A mode, so I never bothered with it.... with one exception. Sometimes my 700si reverts to P mode for some ungodly reason and don't see it until I'm in the middle of a shot.

 

[Mike_E]

Usayit, I tend to stay in Matrix unless there is something in the frame that I want to bring out by nailing the exposure on it.

I also use the spot meter to scope out a room if I'm going manual with the intent to batch process.

You?