With and without flash...What did I do wrong??

[Derrel]

Amolitor hit the nail on the head. ALso, in the very first flash shot, there is red-eye. Why? Flash is too close to the lens axis. An ages-old rule of thumb: on-camera flash must be ONE INCH off-axis for every foot of distance from the camera-mounted flash to the subject!!! THat means, with a prism-mounted flash about 2 inches from the lens axis, one will get redeye when shooting more than about 12 feet distant.

The original fill-flash the OP showed shot would have been "more-believable" had it been made with the flash compensation (the +/- button, the FLASH one!) dialed down to about Minus 2.5 to Minus 2.7 stops. That teenie-tiny little "squirt of flash" would have gently filled the shadows, while preserving the nature of the NATURAL light from the sun, as has been alluded to by several people above.

 

[amolitor]

"strobe" is just a stupid way of saying "flash", or possibly "flash" is a stupid way of saying "strobe"?

There might be some actual technical differences, but for your purposes and mine they're the same thing. Sorry, I should at least stick to ONE word for a thing inside a single comment

 

[The_Traveler]

I have made a mission out of shooting in manual for all my personal shots... but even with my own family I am getting so frustrated. This was evening time and I was getting ridiculous motion blur. I upped the shutter speed and then the images were dark, I upped the iso and then they were noisy. Changed my aperture and they were soft. I felt like a failure after this shoot Pity party for me....

SO... maybe bounce my flash off my reflector??? And yes it was my pop up flash... sorry, I will not do that again

IMO, you haven't got the entire relationship between aperture, dof, shutter speed and ISO down well.

Camera Maker: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XS
Lens: EF-S55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II
Image Date: 2012-07-25 19:44:57
Focal Length: 100.0mm
Focus Distance: 6.75m
Aperture: f/6.3
Exposure Time: 0.017 s (1/60)
ISO equiv: 800
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Partial
Exposure: aperture priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Manual
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
GPS Coordinate: undefined, undefined
Software: Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3.4

At this f stop your DOF is huge - about ten feet, and much more than you need.
The shutter speed is way low for the focal length

I have no idea why you are putting yet another technical burden on yourself by shooting everything manual.
Start with one child so you aren't working with posing issues.
Shoot in aperture preferred, adjust your aperture to get the DOF you want (DOFmaster.com) and make certain the shutter speed is shorter than 1/ twice the focal length. (ex for 100 mm shoot at 1/250).
Adjust your iso to allow the shutter speed you need to eliminate blur.

Don't try to learn to juggle while learning to ride a bike.

 

[tmjjk]

I have made a mission out of shooting in manual for all my personal shots... but even with my own family I am getting so frustrated. This was evening time and I was getting ridiculous motion blur. I upped the shutter speed and then the images were dark, I upped the iso and then they were noisy. Changed my aperture and they were soft. I felt like a failure after this shoot Pity party for me....

SO... maybe bounce my flash off my reflector??? And yes it was my pop up flash... sorry, I will not do that again

IMO, you haven't got the entire relationship between aperture, dof, shutter speed and ISO down well.

Camera Maker: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XS
Lens: EF-S55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II
Image Date: 2012-07-25 19:44:57
Focal Length: 100.0mm
Focus Distance: 6.75m
Aperture: f/6.3
Exposure Time: 0.017 s (1/60)
ISO equiv: 800
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Partial
Exposure: aperture priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Manual
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
GPS Coordinate: undefined, undefined
Software: Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3.4

At this f stop your DOF is huge - about ten feet, and much more than you need.
The shutter speed is way low for the focal length

I have no idea why you are putting yet another technical burden on yourself by shooting everything manual.
Start with one child so you aren't working with posing issues.
Shoot in aperture preferred, adjust your aperture to get the DOF you want (DOFmaster.com) and make certain the shutter speed is shorter than 1/ twice the focal length. (ex for 100 mm shoot at 1/250).
Adjust your iso to allow the shutter speed you need to eliminate blur.

Don't try to learn to juggle while learning to ride a bike.

Great advice! You are exactly right! I need to focus on learning one thing at a time. REALLY learn that area before moving on. Typically when I set my mind to something, I can get it with little problems. There is so much here that I want to improve on and it has been frustrating the last few weeks. It seems my images are lessening in quality instead of improving. OK, back to the basics. I am going to check out that DOFmaster.com right now. Thank you Traveler

 

[tmjjk]

Ok... And after viewing this, I think I better stick with a prime lens until I get the hang of it

 

[amolitor]

Screw manual mode.

Use either shutter or aperture priority and let the camera figure it out. This works for 90 percent of what you want to do. If you REALLY REALLY want a photograph to come out darker or lighter, use exposure compensation, this will take care of the other 10 percent. This is what actual photographers do. For some bizarre reason the use of "manual mode" has become a sort of idiotic rite of passage that the slightly less new newbies tell the complete newbies that the MUST DO. Amateur gearheads use manual, and people who are stuck with equipment that demands manual mode use manual.

That means that I use manual mode a lot, but not because I think it's awesome. It sucks. I've been at this for 20+ years, I've burned a lot of film and pixels, and I still get it wrong now and then. You paid a bunch of money for a camera that can just figure it out for you, don't waste it. Then you can focus on making a good picture, rather then obsessing over stupid technical details that are a solved problem. It's like insisting on doing long division when you have a calculator and you're actually trying to balance your checkbook. Error-prone and pointless, in the context.

 

[cgipson1]

Screw manual mode.

Use either shutter or aperture priority and let the camera figure it out. This works for 90 percent of what you want to do. If you REALLY REALLY want a photograph to come out darker or lighter, use exposure compensation, this will take care of the other 10 percent. This is what actual photographers do. For some bizarre reason the use of "manual mode" has become a sort of idiotic rite of passage that the slightly less new newbies tell the complete newbies that the MUST DO. Amateur gearheads use manual, and people who are stuck with equipment that demands manual mode use manual.

That means that I use manual mode a lot, but not because I think it's awesome. It sucks. I've been at this for 20+ years, I've burned a lot of film and pixels, and I still get it wrong now and then. You paid a bunch of money for a camera that can just figure it out for you, don't waste it. Then you can focus on making a good picture, rather then obsessing over stupid technical details that are a solved problem. It's like insisting on doing long division when you have a calculator and you're actually trying to balance your checkbook. Error-prone and pointless, in the context.

hahhaha.... Wow! I actually agree with you on this! Maybe you aren't so bad.. after all!

 

[amolitor]

Oh, I'm much much worse, Charlie

 

[tmjjk]

Screw manual mode.

Use either shutter or aperture priority and let the camera figure it out. This works for 90 percent of what you want to do. If you REALLY REALLY want a photograph to come out darker or lighter, use exposure compensation, this will take care of the other 10 percent. This is what actual photographers do. For some bizarre reason the use of "manual mode" has become a sort of idiotic rite of passage that the slightly less new newbies tell the complete newbies that the MUST DO. Amateur gearheads use manual, and people who are stuck with equipment that demands manual mode use manual.

That means that I use manual mode a lot, but not because I think it's awesome. It sucks. I've been at this for 20+ years, I've burned a lot of film and pixels, and I still get it wrong now and then. You paid a bunch of money for a camera that can just figure it out for you, don't waste it. Then you can focus on making a good picture, rather then obsessing over stupid technical details that are a solved problem. It's like insisting on doing long division when you have a calculator and you're actually trying to balance your checkbook. Error-prone and pointless, in the context.

It's such a relief to hear that I did feel pressured to use manual mode. As if I wasn't really doing what a photographer is supposed to do if I shot in aperture priority. And when I was shooting with aperture priority my images were SO much better. Starting today I think I am going to start using my calculator again.

 

[amolitor]

It doesn't hurt you any to understand manual mode, and you should definitely understand exposure compensation (and don't worry -- you'll go the wrong way on it, in defiance of probability, MORE than half the time for a while, that's normal . In theory the results should be the same if you're using the meter properly.

This situation seemed to me like you were trying to bite off too much: posing, filling shadows, keeping the kids from going insane, AND manual mode? No way! If you want to learn manual mode, great. Do it with stuff that doesn't get bored and move around and get miserable. Do it with flowers.

 

[Robin Usagani]

I pretty much share the same view as amolitor. You really need to understand the metering though. I use 90% aperture priority. The other 10% is when I use flash, when I shoot same thing over and over. You need to be using the exposure compensation and know exactly what you are metering. The worst you can do is to use AV with spot metering and not knowing what you are doing. Your images exposure will jump up and down and very inconsistent.

 

[The_Traveler]

I shoot Aperture Preferred 95% of the time (and shutter preferred the rest for bike races or such).
If I had another few fingers and an additional lobe on my brain and another eye, I might shoot manual but there doesn't seem to be any plus to it.
I lean very heavily on using exposure compensation to correct for what the camera cant know.


but of course, I am not a PRO, and I don't know bupkes.

 

[tmjjk]

Great! I have a renewed excitement and cannot wait to shoot again Just a quick question regarding metering. Is spot metering equivalent to partial metering? I have a canon and my choices are evaluative, partial, and center weighted. I have visited a few websites to understand the different metering modes, but what would be the recommended for a noob shooting outdoors (like in the posted images)? Thanks!!

 

[Robin Usagani]

Spot metering is kinda like center weighted but the area is much smaller. I guess you dont have spot metering.

 

[MTVision]

Great! I have a renewed excitement and cannot wait to shoot again Just a quick question regarding metering. Is spot metering equivalent to partial metering? I have a canon and my choices are evaluative, partial, and center weighted. I have visited a few websites to understand the different metering modes, but what would be the recommended for a noob shooting outdoors (like in the posted images)? Thanks!!

This is a little blurb I found about partial

"Partial Metering is a camera-metering mode in which the metering is weighted at the center of the viewfinder (unlike center-weighted in which the camera averages the exposure based on the reading at the center). You can think of Partial Metering as “expanded” spot metering, because the area that is metered is specific, but not tiny (roughly 10% of the viewfinder versus 2.3% of the viewfinder for spot metering mode). Partial metering is best used when your subject is overly backlit and you want to get a quality exposure of the subject. Partial metering will enable correct exposure of your subject, however the background will be over-exposed. Partial metering will enable you to more specifically control the exposure in a particular region of the photograph."

I'm not an expert by any means but I use evaluative metering, for the most part, when using aperture/shutter priority. But I always peek at my LCD and have the histograms showing so I can check the exposure. Then I adjust exposure compensation if needed.