Zack Arias: Crop or Crap ?

Solarflare

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YouTube Video: Zack Arias: Crop or Crap ?

I agree with most of what Zack says.

However:

What annoyed me the most was that he ignored completely the other differences, aside from sensor size. A large format camera is a very different beast in operation from a medium format camera. And while medium and small format are much more alike, the design focus between medium and small format lenses is also substantly different. One cant just act as if all these cameras would do the same in the first place.

So for example its quite harder to shoot sports with a medium format camera, instead of a small format camera: less extreme focal lengths possible, lower f-stops, only one autofocus point, possibly limited to low maxium shutter speeds thanks to central shutters.

I also would like to point out that theres more differences in quality than just resolution. In general small format uses f1.8 or f1.4 primes and f2.8 or f4 or f4.5-5.6 zooms, while medium format typically starts with f2.8 primes and if there are zooms at all, they are something like f5.6, while the brightest primes for large format are something like f4.5, most are f5.6 and up. Also large format lenses (and some medium format and very few small format lenses) are focused by moving the whole lens - this allows to align the lens elements more precisely. So theres more differences than just sheer resolution between these formats.

Yes the differences between APS-C and full frame sensor size ultimately indeed isnt that big. But the differences between APS-C and Full Frame in operation are NOT big. What you can do with APS-C, you can do with Full Frame, and vice versa. The difference is the full frame sensor will have more reserves.

I feel that at the price point that Fuji operates, offering fantastic lenses but only an APS-C sensor just seems weird. APS-C sensors are what now ? Well below 100$ or 100€. Full frame is a couple 100 "bucks". Fuji X lenses are fantastic, but they are also not cheap at all. So why use a cheap APS-C sensor for them ? Theres two lenses that make sense to me for Fuji X - the two cheap plastic zooms. The rest is just weird. Why cant I have these lenses for a sensor thats more on the level of the lens price ? Wouldnt make the system much more expensive but would give me a relevant boost in overall quality.

Also, for me APS-C (or MFT etc) has NO RELEVANT SIZE ADVANTAGE. Fuji X cameras are simply too damn small for me. I cant hold them well because I have big hands and everywhere I want to put my fingers there seeems to be buttons I'll accidentaly press. Granted the X-T1 looks a bit better than the X-E2 in that respect. But heck even these Sony A7* cameras are still way tiny. I really wouldnt mind the camera creators getting forced to larger mirrorless cameras with a 44x33mm or 48x36mm sensor.

Its true if you're looking for more extreme focal lengths and more extensive zoom ranges, APS-C and even more MFT will get big size and weight advantages, but in my mind a mirrorless is something I mostly would want to use with prime lenses of less extreme focal lenghts. So for example if I would get into Fuji X, my lens selection would be right now: 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2.

There is by the way in my mind absolutely no point to the 0.95 lenses for MFT. A set of f1.9 lenses for full frame would do exactly the same in respect to depth of field, and would only have advantages in every other respect - much simpler construction and much cheaper to produce, higher image quality (all assuming same quality standards), needs to be less stopped down in bright sunlight etc.

I also dont agree that the difference between APS-C and Fullframe is irrelevant in practice. Sure a well lit scene can look great with APS-C already. But the reserves in extreme situations are not irrelevant in practice. What I can do with my old D5100 and my current D750 in low light is a huge difference - and having to handle low light isnt a rare condition for me.

A big factor why I went full frame was of course also that the Nikon full frame lens selection is worlds better than the half frame lens selection. The lens selection for Fuji X is more expensive, but more complete and of higher image and build quality than the lens selections for Nikon DX and Canon EF-S.

Personally I hope that Fujis new system will use the 44x33mm sensor from Sony, will be mirrorless, and will be hand tailored for 44x33mm (instead of many systems right now that are actually 56x42mm aka 645 and only use 44x33mm or 48x36mm as a crop/crippled format.

The highlight of the Fuji X system, to me, is still the X100(s|t). Its still the camera that exploits the possibilities of a compact camera the best.
 

nerwin

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I love Zack and like you, I agree on mostly what he says about sensor sizes. Full frame sensor is not a APS-C sensor and vice versa. He fails to mention that full frame sensors are obliviously bigger and have larger photo cells which means finer grain at higher ISOs and lens diffraction occurs at much smaller apertures then APS-C. I have easily noticed these differences in practice.

I completely get what Zack is saying, but to me, there are differences.

After shooting full frame for the first time, I don't know if I can go back haha.
 

Derrel

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Shaquile O'Neal and Spud Webb were the SAME, exact kind of basketball players. NO differences, really. Ask Zack about it. He'll confirm it.
 

jaomul

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Its kinda like an advert for Fuji
 
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Solarflare

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Its kinda like an advert for Fuji
Did that surprise you ? Thats exactly what I expect from Zack Arias.

Now Steve Huff recommenting, say, the Nikon D750 or the Canon 5Ds R, that would be something thats surprising.
 

nerwin

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Its kind of strange that these photographers like Zack, Trey Ratcliff, David Hobby, etc use to all shoot with a full frame DSLR and now they have all switched to a compact mirrorless system. I just don't get how they can just stop using a full frame DSLR and go to a smaller sensor and then start trash talking DSLRs and saying they are paper weights. I know some use the Sony A7 cameras...but still. I mean are they like getting paid by like Sony and Fuji to get their cameras out there and convince people DSLR cameras are pointless?

They must love carrying multiple batteries in their pockets.
 
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gsgary

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Its kind of strange that these photographers like Zack, Philip Bloom, Trey Ratcliff, David Hobby, etc use to all shoot with a full frame DSLR and now they have all switched to a compact mirrorless system. I just don't get how they can just stop using a full frame DSLR and go to a smaller sensor and then start trash talking DSLRs and saying they are paper weights. I know some use the Sony A7 cameras...but still.

They must love carrying multiple batteries in their pockets.
Better than carrying an overweight dslr
 

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Its kind of strange that these photographers like Zack, Philip Bloom, Trey Ratcliff, David Hobby, etc use to all shoot with a full frame DSLR and now they have all switched to a compact mirrorless system. I just don't get how they can just stop using a full frame DSLR and go to a smaller sensor and then start trash talking DSLRs and saying they are paper weights. I know some use the Sony A7 cameras...but still. I mean are they like getting paid by like Sony and Fuji to get their cameras out there and convince people DSLR cameras are pointless?

They must love carrying multiple batteries in their pockets.

Like the guy from dPreview who shot an NFL Seahawks football game this November with a SONY A7r-Mark II and wrote about it. He shot a paltry 700 frames over three hours, and needed THREE f****g fully charged batteries to make it through three hours of shooting in mild weather temps!!! Pathetic. Christ on a Cracker...my D3x will pull 3,000 .NEF frames on ONE battery..my D2x could pull 3,500 frames on a single charge...

Of course, those are professional Nikons, designed to have the absolute MAXIMUM battery performance. I shot for two and a half hours this past Sunday morning and made 348 flash-lighted portraits, focusing every shot with AF-D lenses mostly (85-105-135) and about 50 frames with a 1.8 AF-S, and then went to my second shoot, and I looked at the battery monitor after having shot another 189 frames at the second shoot at the end of the time I filled the second CF card up. I looked at the Battery Info status when I loaded my second set of two new CF cards, and the battery status was 86 percent remaining.

Keeping up with the big boys? Shooting pro sports with the Sony a7R II.

"I made it through the game in three, fully charged batteries with 700 total images shot. That frame count is a clear case of 'undershooting' in terms of sports shooting, especially in the age of 10 or more frames per second on pro-bodied SLRs"

BATTERY impotence is the huge, huge performance issue with most mirrorless cameras, where you can get 185 or 200, or maybe 250 frames per charge...this kind of a camera battery issue becomes a MAJOR PITA, and one is ALWAYS left always worrying the battery in use will die, and you are often left needing one,two,three, four charged batteries to get your work done on any kind of a real assignment. F****' ridiculous.
 
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sashbar

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C'mon guys, FF DSLRs soon will be selling here: :biglaugh:
Antique_seller_49.jpg
 

gsgary

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If your any good 200 shots a battery is plenty it's only you dslr shooters that have to shoot thousands to get one average shot
 

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Personally reduce battery life along with less than perfect smooth motion when viewing action are two things I think that video feed based viewfinders are going to have problems with for a long time. Simply put if you've got to run the sensor the whole time to provide the video output then you're going to get increased loss of battery life compared to a mirror based setup.

I'm not surprised the camera eats battery life so rapidly; and yes you can get more batteries and you can swap them over so its not the end of the world; but it is a step back for not a huge amount of gain. I think if Sony wants to really use mirrorless to its fullest they've got to take the camera it self back to the drawing board and apply ergonomics to the design more so. The camera has certain limits for sure; but with no mirrorbox and no film inside does a modern mirroless SLR need to be a rectangular box? It can adapt much more to better fit the frame of a human face and to better fit into the general hand to aid steady holding.



I dunno I think the whole fullframe vs crop still has some weight in certain situations but at present we are going through a wave of marketing which is basically debunking what old comparisons between the two were = back when fullframe really was streets ahead of crop quality wise. As that gap narrows for sure the crop sensor becomes more viable and nothing suggests that 35mm is the "perfect" sensor size
 

Didereaux

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If your any good 200 shots a battery is plenty it's only you dslr shooters that have to shoot thousands to get one average shot


Pull your tongue out of your cheek!!!!!!! ;)
...or your head out of ...... ;)
 

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