Zoo's - Shooting fish in a barrel

[Digital Matt]

I agree with what Big Mike initially said. Valuable research is being done to save these animals, and as long as we keep destroying their habitat, there will be a need for zoo's to keep them from going extinct. Snow leopards are on the endangered species list for this very reason.

If you are going to blame us for going to zoo's, we can just as easily blame you for buying products you buy, which are made by companies who are out there destroying the rainforests and other natural habitats. I don't think it's fair for you to start throwing blame around.

The money zoos get from me goes to help fund reasearch which benefits these animals, both in captivity and in the wild.

 

[crosmill]

I agree with what Big Mike initially said. Valuable research is being done to save these animals, and as long as we keep destroying their habitat, there will be a need for zoo's to keep them from going extinct. Snow leopards are on the endangered species list for this very reason.

But if you'd read my reply you'd have noticed that I pointed that endangered animals are often kept out of the publics view as they find it too stressfull.

Why do you think it's such a challenge to get captive animals to breed. Zoo's are unpleasent place for animals to be. They don't like it.

But yes I do agree that conservation efforts are being made. But I still dissagree that there is a need for zoo's to fund this.

 

[graigdavis]

:scratch: your thought process is a bit skewed here. You cant compare wild animals feelings to our feelings. The animals that you are looking at were most likely born there. They dont know anything different. If you were born in a zoo with people all around that wouldnt phase you. They adapt to their surroundings to a point.

Do research on your local Zoo and see what their goal is. Most likely the animals that are at your zoo will be there for a short time. When they are strong enough to live on their own they will be released. A large number of the animals at your zoo were saved for one reason or another. If they were in the wild any longer they would have been dead.

Now if were talking about something like Sea World I would agree with you 100%. The whales and dolphins are there for one reason only...show.

 

[graigdavis]

But yes I do agree that conservation efforts are being made. But I still dissagree that there is a need for zoo's to fund this.

:scratch: Do you think they have unlimited funding from the government?

 

[terri]

This is an interesting argument. I agree with you in spirit, crosmil. I am not a proponent of zoos and I haven't set foot in one for years. They are a turn-off.

That said, I think what a lot of us find the most nauseating is the behavior and attitude of yesteryear, and these attitudes have changed for the better, and definitely to the benefit of the animals. Here in Atlanta, in the late 60's (not sure of the actual dates, I didn't grow up here) a silverbacked gorilla was captured as a young un and brought to Atlanta, where he was named "Willie B" and kept in a small cage in a shopping mall for years. He was moved from the small cage to a larger cage in the Atlanta Zoo, but still caged. The Atlanta Zoo underwent a multi-million dollar renovation, and one of the main attractions was the "environment" that was created for him. I was living here when that atttraction opened, and cameras were trained on him when he was allowed to roam "free" in his new habitat for the first time in about 30 years. He hardly knew what to do, was one confused and intimidated animal. I think a lot of people were quietly stunned that day, watching him. He got used to it and learned to enjoy it, of course - and still tons of people came to see him, when he felt like being seen. He died a year or two back, a much happier animal than when he was trapped and brought here.

My rambling point is: the animals who are caught in the wild and brought to caged conditions DO know an alternative existance, and no, don't expect them to reason their way into enjoying the easy food and lack of predators. Their brains don't reason that way - all they know is that they're caught. On the other hand, the animals who are born into this captivity have no real concept of anything else, and their instincts are certain to be watered down.

The "breed" will survive because it's in a safe environment, no question. I suppose that's better than, say, being a wolf in the northern territories or Alaska, where you can rent a helicopter and flush them out and gun them down for sport. Supposedly you're doing them a favor by "thinning the herds" when you commit this act, but I guess "favor" is all relative, depending which side of the barrel you're on.

You don't want to get me started on circuses. I think they're much worse than zoos, and I have a clown phobia, to boot.

 

[crosmill]

:scratch: Do you think they have unlimited funding from the government?

Of course not, but there are other ways of funding it.

I realise most zoo's do work to help animals, but ultimately they are there to make money for the owners of the zoo. That means keeping the zoo well stocked with enough exotic anmials to keep the punters happy. For some it may be a half way house while they get well, others may have been born there and not know any different, but does that make it any better? Most are there as specticals for our amusement.
Why would you bring a tiger half way round the world to make it well and then take it back again?

 

[MDowdey]

I'm not gung ho, it's a fact. Anmials are scared of other animals with eyes on the front of they're head. It's trait hunting animals have so they can judge distance. Survival of the fittest dictates that animals with better survival instincts, being able to spot a preditor, will survive over those that can't. so i makes sense that they do see us like that. Also demostrated by the fact that they will run away from us in the wild.

And if you're so sure they're happier then, take the fences down and see if they stay.

wow, you really have a chip on your shoulder. really unfortunate. all im saying is that they arent mistreated. jesus.


md

 

[terri]

Now, Matthew. I think he was just making a point, in saying "take down the fences and see if they stay". I doubt they would, don't you? Please don't take offense, it's been a pretty calm debate so far. :hug:

 

[crosmill]

wow, you really have a chip on your shoulder. really unfortunate. all im saying is that they arent mistreated. jesus.


md

No chip, must be the way write.......

Personally i tohught you were being a bit arsey calling me gung ho.

Guess we got our wires crossed huh?

BTW I'm sure you're all thinking I'm some hippy vegitarian type. Couldn't be further from the truth. I just don't like to see unhappy, caged animals.

I thought being photographers, peopel here would share my passion for nature in it's own right and in it's own context but there doesn't seem to be much support round here for it. Makes me sad.

 

[photogoddess]

Personally I prefer to shoot animals in the wild. They're good eatin. :LOL:

 

[crosmill]

Personally I prefer to shoot animals in the wild. They're good eatin. :LOL:

As long as you eat it I'm fine with that.

 

[crosmill]

Sorry teri I missed you're post.

Kind of nice story for the gorrilla, thats about the only time I'd like to see zoo's around. Obviously it's never going to be integrated into the wild again. i still don't think it should be on show though.

 

[terri]

Sorry teri I missed you're post.

Kind of nice story for the gorrilla, thats about the only time I'd like to see zoo's around. Obviously it's never going to be integrated into the wild again. i still don't think it should be on show though.

You're absolutely right. This one had happy ending - but not until he'd been on display in a cage for 26 years. Or was it 28? :scratch: Either way, he came to be kind of the poster-gorilla for what was wrong with zoos. To their credit, the tide seems to be turned towards keeping the animals happier and healthier. It's way past whether or not they should be there in the first place.

 

[oriecat]

but ultimately they are there to make money for the owners of the zoo.

I don't know about elsewhere, but in the US, the vast majority (over 84%) of accredited zoos and animal parks are either run by the gov't or non-profit organizations. People don't get into the zoo business to make money.

Now I am like Terri, I am very torn about how I feel about zoos. But circuses... oh yeah... grrrr :x

 

[crosmill]

I don't know about elsewhere, but in the US, the vast majority (over 84%) of accredited zoos and animal parks are either run by the gov't or non-profit organizations.

Well you sound like you know more facts than me, I will conceed my point about zoo's being for profit is one that I plucked out of thin air, however like everything else in a capitalist society. If it doesn't make money then it will cease to exist, I find it unlikely that governments would prop up zoo's from the tax payer? but I don't know....

Cicuses suck.