All my digital gear is on Craigslist . . .

Kegger · Jan 7, 2009

How bout a used D300. They can be had for relatively cheap nowadays.

elemental · Jan 7, 2009

Kegger said:
How bout a used D300. They can be had for relatively cheap nowadays.

They're still about double what a D200 costs, and out of my price range.

ANDS! · Jan 7, 2009

elemental said:
They're still about double what a D200 costs, and out of my price range.

People are dropping them for 1100 gripped in some situations. You are right though, that is still 400/600 more than some people are wanting for the their D200's. Still. . .

elemental · Jan 8, 2009

ANDS! said:
People are dropping them for 1100 gripped in some situations. You are right though, that is still 400/600 more than some people are wanting for the their D200's. Still. . .

$400-600 is a lot of glass, or, in my case, a lot of money I don't have. D300s are lovely, but I can't afford one, and if I really stretched for it, I would have to compromise glass. The D200 fits my budget, offers the functionality I want, and is an excellent tool. Most importantly, it lets me invest in Nikon.

JerryPH · Jan 8, 2009

elemental said:
Less Mamiya medium format and more like a pair of plastic fantastics.

Did that give it away?

Maybe... a Holga?

usayit · Jan 8, 2009

The limited upward expandability,... snip
graduate programs ....snip
freelance commercial work. ...snip
K20D, I wasted it.

IMO (please don't take this badly.... just my opinion... )

If you have limited funds, then "buying into a system" is the least of your concern. Rarely does a change in system equate to an immediate improvement in your photography. There is absolutely nothing in the K100D, K20D or Pentax system that prevents a photographer breaking into the professional world. Changing systems at this time is a total waste of money... and money is something that doesn't come easy to a student.

Limited upward expandability... (with what money?)
Graduate programs (Do they require Nikon or Canon to qualify?)
Freelance Commercial work (do they care what camera you use... just the final output?)

"K20D, I wasted it". On all accounts, I found everything about the camera more than acceptable for professional work. What also makes no sense is that you are looking for a D200 that is (in the digital world) an old camera... As much as I don't agree with 100% dxomark, their measurements place the K20D at par to the D200 in most categories and the K20D beat it in the ISO numbers.

Common! If you are going to loose out financially in a system change (it almost always is) you might as well follow the advice of others here and go with something much more later... the D300 or D700. As with anything in the digital world, newer sensor and electronics is almost always better newer....

As for pentax's lack of a "professional" camera, a member here Benjikan is a very well known, respected, and accomplished fashion photographer. He shoots almost exclusively with K10Ds (probably K20D by now).

Benjamin Kanarek Photographer ftvstudio.com featured member

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/members/benjikan.html

Once you make it as a professional and start making a living, then it is the time to be picky and jump systems as much as you want. It is your luxury....

btw... we've had "professional" and 'prosumer" labeling discussions here before.... totally dumb marketing.. Don't fall for it. Any camera that fits your needs as a professional photographer is a professional camera.

and no... I am not putting Pentax high on a pedestal ... I shoot Canon and Leica.

digitaldetours · Jan 8, 2009

The D200 is on my wish list. I won't be seeing it for a while though. I should possibly figure out my 60 first though

Good luck on your new relationship with Nikon, I doubt you'll regret it.

JIP · Jan 8, 2009

usayit said:
IMO (please don't take this badly.... just my opinion... )

If you have limited funds, then "buying into a system" is the least of your concern. Rarely does a change in system equate to an immediate improvement in your photography. There is absolutely nothing in the K100D, K20D or Pentax system that prevents a photographer breaking into the professional world. Changing systems at this time is a total waste of money... and money is something that doesn't come easy to a student.

Limited upward expandability... (with what money?)
Graduate programs (Do they require Nikon or Canon to qualify?)
Freelance Commercial work (do they care what camera you use... just the final output?)

"K20D, I wasted it". On all accounts, I found everything about the camera more than acceptable for professional work. What also makes no sense is that you are looking for a D200 that is (in the digital world) an old camera... As much as I don't agree with 100% dxomark, their measurements place the K20D at par to the D200 in most categories and the K20D beat it in the ISO numbers.

Common! If you are going to loose out financially in a system change (it almost always is) you might as well follow the advice of others here and go with something much more later... the D300 or D700. As with anything in the digital world, newer sensor and electronics is almost always better newer....

As for pentax's lack of a "professional" camera, a member here Benjikan is a very well known, respected, and accomplished fashion photographer. He shoots almost exclusively with K10Ds (probably K20D by now).

Benjamin Kanarek Photographer ftvstudio.com featured member

The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - View Profile: benjikan

Once you make it as a professional and start making a living, then it is the time to be picky and jump systems as much as you want. It is your luxury....

btw... we've had "professional" and 'prosumer" labeling discussions here before.... totally dumb marketing.. Don't fall for it. Any camera that fits your needs as a professional photographer is a professional camera.

and no... I am not putting Pentax high on a pedestal ... I shoot Canon and Leica.

Bringing up Benjikan is all well and good but you do realize I hope that he is PAID to do so. I would be willing to shoot any system (yes even Sony) professionally if I was paid to do so. I am glad to hear a former confused soul has come over to the "dark side". The only thing I really have to say about all this is the "big 2" have stayed in he pro market through good and bad times and have been innovating all the time. The "other 3" are either Jonny come latelys or are in and out of the market depending on the whims of current buying trends.

usayit · Jan 8, 2009

JIP said:
Bringing up Benjikan is all well and good but you do realize I hope that he is PAID to do so. I would be willing to shoot any system (yes even Sony) professionally if I was paid to do so

Yes... he is paid... also was endorsed by Canon at some point.

BUT (that is besides my point)

There is no reason a very highly talented and experienced professional with a entry-level camera can produce better results than any of us that shoot with professional camera bodies. Furthermore, it simply points out that the K10D and K20D can be used in a professional manner and not just fall apart. No professional photographer.. I mean NO professional photographer would risk an assignment on equipment that is not up to the task nor meets their needs.

If it was between you and your Sony endorsed Sony DSLR given to you for free and completing a project for a paying customer, I bet you money that you would dump that Sony so quick for a Nikon to finish the job.

When a non-professional comes up to me and says "I need to switch systems because I need a professional camera", I usually just nod and give them whatever they want for the sale... knowing very well it is almost always money wasted.

When a professional comes up to me and says "I need to switch systems... the camera doesn't do A, B, C, and Fails with D, E ,F...", I usually will say.. wow.. it really doesn't meet your needs. Letsee what we can do. Money also spent BUT at least it is to further the photographer's ability to make money (compete) and meet goals. (If they are lucky... their company pays the bill). It is money invested.

elemental · Jan 9, 2009

usayit said:
IMO (please don't take this badly.... just my opinion... )

If you have limited funds, then "buying into a system" is the least of your concern. Rarely does a change in system equate to an immediate improvement in your photography. There is absolutely nothing in the K100D, K20D or Pentax system that prevents a photographer breaking into the professional world. Changing systems at this time is a total waste of money... and money is something that doesn't come easy to a student.

Limited upward expandability... (with what money?)
Graduate programs (Do they require Nikon or Canon to qualify?)
Freelance Commercial work (do they care what camera you use... just the final output?)

"K20D, I wasted it". On all accounts, I found everything about the camera more than acceptable for professional work. What also makes no sense is that you are looking for a D200 that is (in the digital world) an old camera... As much as I don't agree with 100% dxomark, their measurements place the K20D at par to the D200 in most categories and the K20D beat it in the ISO numbers.

Common! If you are going to loose out financially in a system change (it almost always is) you might as well follow the advice of others here and go with something much more later... the D300 or D700. As with anything in the digital world, newer sensor and electronics is almost always better newer....

As for pentax's lack of a "professional" camera, a member here Benjikan is a very well known, respected, and accomplished fashion photographer. He shoots almost exclusively with K10Ds (probably K20D by now).

Benjamin Kanarek Photographer ftvstudio.com featured member

The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - View Profile: benjikan

Once you make it as a professional and start making a living, then it is the time to be picky and jump systems as much as you want. It is your luxury....

btw... we've had "professional" and 'prosumer" labeling discussions here before.... totally dumb marketing.. Don't fall for it. Any camera that fits your needs as a professional photographer is a professional camera.

and no... I am not putting Pentax high on a pedestal ... I shoot Canon and Leica.

I am not going to graduate school for photography, but I do plan on having the money once I graduate to make camera bodies that cost more than $900 realistic.

To be honest, I am less than thrilled with my equipment as is. I despise my zooms (the only lenses I like are my SMC M 50mm f/2s), and the K100D body is not exactly a joy to use for an advanced amateur. It's a great and capable camera, it just is irritating to use. I was thinking about selling my gear for a used K10D (which would really just be an indulgence for me, since it's less irritating to use) and some sharp half decent lenses (FA 35mm f/2 and FA 50mmn f/1.4 topped the short list). What I realized was that this constituted starting completely over, albeit within the same system. It's really not more or less expensive to do the same thing and move to another system.

I am a student, but I am not in abject poverty (and, unfortunately, my "big returns" aren't $10,000 of dividends from my trust find, but a $250 tax return). Photography is one of my passions, and I have put some money together to make this move. It's not because I "want to look pro" or because I feel pressure from the Canikon factions. I just want ot know that if I invest in lenses, the company will still be making cameras for me to put them on in twenty years. When I finish school and take a job, I'd like to be able to buy a "luxury" camera like a D700, not because I'll need it (at least, probably not), but because I'd like one. I'd like to entertain the possibility of owning some top-end cameras in my future. Pentax has shown nothing but contempt for the top of the market, and isn't even investing in technologies like full frame that are drastically altering the landscape at the top.

I know "pros" shoot Pentax. It just really doesn't make that much difference to me. To be honest, I think the "pro worship" in photography is ridiculous. There are many hobbyist photographers on this site who produce better work in their spare time than some photographers who make a living from photography. I want to invest in lenses that I believe will still be relevant to me in ten years, and Pentax doesn't fill me with confidence.

To put it succinctly, I don't trust Pentax enough to invest in their system. I've watched them drop the ball too many times.

Mike_E · Jan 9, 2009

You'll like the D200. Look into getting some Non-AI primes and do the AI-ing yourself. With a little patience you can get some great glass for a lot less. (you'll probably want a Katz-eye focusing screen but that's a different story)

I check pawn shops quite often and find Old Nikon glass a lot. My last find was a Nikon 24mm NC for $10. Really. I found a 28mm f/2.8 for $30, a 135mm f/2.8 for $15. (I'm still looking for a 50mm f/1.2 that's 'a deal'

)

Kiron made some really nice glass too if you happen to run across any. If you find a 105mm, grab it. The 28-105mm is a nice one too. I'm still wondering why I gave that one to my sister-in-law. :/

You Do want to get a Nikon 18-70mm AF-S! Of course the -200mm f/2.8 Nikons are great but you could get a 180mm f/2.8 and an older 300mm f/2.8 and a new pair of shoes and be happier in all likelyhood.

Enjoy!

BTW and old 35mm film camera and some slow B&W might just be worth a try. Do a search on the subject.

usayit · Jan 13, 2009

elemental said:
To be honest, I am less than thrilled with my equipment as is.
.. snip ..
I know "pros" shoot Pentax. It just really doesn't make that much difference to me. To be honest, I think the "pro worship" in photography is ridiculous

This post is drastically different from the one starting this thread. One kinda states that you are happy with Pentax but just want a Pro-body. This one admits that you are just plain not happy with the Pentax system.

If you are an unhappy camper, then yes.. Just make sure your are burning your cash on something that you'll enjoy... not a bridge gap to yet another system.

JerryPH · Jan 13, 2009

I hope you realize that though they are higher, you will run into some serious barriers with the D200 soon enough. This coming from someone that owns a D200.

The D200 is a good camera but in about 6 months you are going to be comparing it to something made within the last year and wishing you had waited and saved a little more for something more recent.

Tolyk · Jan 13, 2009

Pentax would be stupid to create a full frame sensor now. They've optimized all their new lenses (even their pro ones) for digital cropped bodies. If they suddenly switched to full-frame, they'd piss off all their customers. There is nothing wrong with a cropped sensor, especially depending on what type of photography you do. Great for wildlife! Landscape? Buy a 12-24 or something similar, not that hard to get around the wide-angle issues anymore. You'll have the exact same problems with a D200, just with the ability to upgrade down the road to what you're calling a pro camera. I'm assuming you mean full-frame. Beyond the better low-light performance a bigger sensor offers, there isn't anything a D700 gives over a D300 in terms of functionality or "pro-ness". The K20d meets all my standards for being a pro-worthy body, weather sealing being at the top of that list, and it's got the best damn weather sealing available. I also much prefer in-camera stabilization, as when the technology improves, I replace one camera body, not all the lenses that suddenly have new versions (read Nikkor's 70-200 VR II).

As for the Pentax's medium format digital, it disappeared because they had an expected market value for it, to compete with Blads and other digial MF. What they didn't predict was the cost of their sensors suddenly tripling in price. I've spoken with Pentax, the project isn't gone, it's just on the back burner until they can find a reasonably priced sensor. And what's MF got to do with upgradability for your SLR? Not like the same lenses would fit on the thing.

If you want to switch to Nikon, go right ahead. You needn't bash Pentax's performance to do so. If you're unhappy with your camera, that's a personal choice and it affects your photography. Get a camera you're happy with, you'll shoot more. But saying Pentax isn't pro enough for you... well, that's just kind of silly.

Mike_E · Jan 13, 2009

Go ahead and get it out of your system and get an RB67 Pro Sd, one of these.. Sekonic L-358 FLASH MASTER , and a good scanner.

Get a 50mm C, a 90mm C and a 150mm C lens to go with the RB, four or five backs -including a 6x4.5 and you'll be good to go.