A few questions about TFCD

[vato_loco]

Hey everyone.

I have a few questions about TFCD, since I'm looking for models and locations and stuff.

Please note that while I already have a portfolio and a website, I'm not a widely known photographer, mostly because of my introvert nature.

1 - When you approach someone you want to shoot, how do you usually do it? Do you establish the kind of photos you want to do or leave some room for the subject to suggest?

2 - If there's any part of the shoot that requires money, like make-up or a studio, how do you deal with that? 50/50? Does this change if the subject is a professional model and would thus use your photos for her own portfolio?

3 - Regarding location, do you usually rent hotels or ask for permission to use the commom areas such as pools and other premises?

Modelmayhem and other model booking sites don't really work because my town is really small and most models don't even know these sites exist. If I need to approach someone, I'll invariably have to use Facebook.

Thank you!

 

[tirediron]

Or... you could try approaching them face to face and just leave the book out of it altogether! My approach is the same whether I'm contacting them in-person or electronically: "Hi, I'm John and I'm a photographer working on a project that I think your look would fit in very well... <overview of shoot idea>, <show portfolio>... Let me know if you're interested in working together.

Generally for TF*, I ask models to arrive H/MU Ready (Hair/Make-up Ready) and put the responsibility for that on their shoulders. If it's a larger project, or one with a couple of different looks, I will first try and find an MUA who is willing to work TF*, and if not, then yes, I would split 50/50 with the model. If a shoot is TF*, then it's TF*, so the it doesn't matter how professional or amateur the model is.

Hotels are NOT likely to let you use any part of their premises without charge, and in fact, many take a dim view of their rooms being used as sets even if you do pay the regular rate. If you're going to work on commercial premises, ensure you have adquare insurance! I generally use either my studio, or one of several out-door locations I know of in my area. If I was going to use a hotel, I would tell them what I was going to be doing to ensure there were no issues.

 

[JoeW]

Multiple questions, multiple answers...

1. Women all the time get hit on by sleezebags and pickup artists...."I work for Vogue/Playboy/Maxim and you should be a model." So that tends to be quite a turnoff and credibility destroyer in a lot of cases. A lot depends upon what you want to shoot. Post ads on University bulletin boards in art and design departments. This can be particularly effective with TF--you get a clothing designer in school who wants photos showing off her portfolio and will pose in exchange. I know of some photographers who use Craigs List to get amateur talent. Yes, some photographers use FB as well. Think of jobs/industries where individuals will want/need photos of themselves (like individuals in dance schools, students in theatre programs who need head shots, individuals in cosmetology programs showing their work). Artists need shots of their work and may trade posing time for that. Most universities have a pool of models that they use for figure studies/life studies. Painters often will hire models. Reach out to those resources to see if they can refer someone. Cauzimme here on TPF shoots escorts--some of whom need promotional photos. I've known photographers who shoot personal workout coaches (usually physically fit and ripped individuals who need promo shots and in exchange may pose for other genres you're interested in). If you are going to approach someone on the street you should: (a) have a business card so it doesn't come off like a pickup line (b) have a camera with you otherwise it tends to come off like a pickup line and (c) don't be pushy otherwise it comes off like a pickup line. Go to MM and put in a casting call. Look for traveling models. If you haven't done a lot of work with models (I don't know--don't know your website), it's worth starting out with a professional. You'll get better results that way (and a better portfolio increases the chances that amateurs will be willing to do TF work with you--they look at your work and go "wow--I want to look like that!"). And a pro reduces the chances that you get crap from your shoot. And a pro will accelerate your learning curve so the upcoming shoots you do with amateurs go much better.

2. Totally up to you to work out the details and it will often vary with each shoot. Some photographers take the attitude of...if it's a TF shoot then the model should bear no expenses. So they pay for food, for gas, for a MUA, for a babysitter, for any necessary props or clothes. If it's something that you BOTH want to shoot....or she suggested the particular theme then you work it out and split it or she pays. If it's a professional model, it's highly unlikely she'll do TF unless she's just changed her hair or had a baby and needs portfolio update work. Related to all this is usage. You should have any model sign a release. That gives you authorization to sell or market photos outside of your personal little website or hanging 'em up in your house. But you need to lay out what rights she has. If it's a TF shoot, I'd expect that she expects to be getting photos. If she's an amateur, she'll have wildly unrealistic expectations of what happens here...that you'll split all the profits, that she gets royalties, that she gets to approve all photos, that she gets to approve where you decide to display or show a photo every single time, that she gets edits of every single photo you shot...yep, this will happen sometimes. So you should craft a usage agreement that explains what rights the model has with photos (can she edit? remove your watermark? sell what you give her and keep the proceeds? display without asking your permission? use any raw files you chose not to use?). Furthermore, a big issue with working with amateur models on a TF basis is...what happens if 2 years later she becomes a public school teacher (and starts thinking of those art nudes she shot with you)? Or she marries someone running for public office? She may contact you and ask you to destroy them/take them off your website. If you don't have a release and/or haven't managed expectations, this is pretty common. Heck--she may just become a better model and decide those older photos make her look fat. I'm not talking legal issues here, I'm talking your rep in the modeling community in your small town...do you get a rep as the photographer who "does the right thing" (which is an important consideration when dealing with amateur or first-time models) or someone who sticks to legalities and got little Susie fired from her job at the church b/c of some decision she made to pose in her underwear 2 years ago?

3. Location: depends upon what you want to shoot. Just finding "space" is a lousy idea. You want a setting that works for the photographs and that also facilitates the shoots. It sounds as if you want privacy via the implied comments in your message. Look at studio rentals (yes, they're out there) and will be cheaper than a hotel room (a decent studio may rent for as little as $20-30 an hour). Look at art coops or art leagues (where they often have a studio available for members or their little gallery is only open at certain times so you can shoot in it during off hours). Look at unrented residence or commercial space and contact leasing agents or realtors....they will often "take it in trade" where you shoot photos of the space for them and they let you use the space for a couple of hours. Condos with rooftop pools or clubhouses can be good options. Do not jump at a location just b/c it's a location. Find a location that is going to provide a good backdrop for your photos. Otherwise, you could go shoot at a landfill or empty construction site and have privacy. Be warned--you'll probably need to demonstrate insurance and/or sign a liability waiver for most commercial spaces you seek to use. Almost all commercial chains won't give you approval (and will even kick you out of common space if your'e renting there) and just push your request up to corporate who will push it to legal, wait 3 months and then tell you "no." Approach a B&B. Or approach someone who rents their space vs. Airbnb and tell them you'll do pictures of their space for them if you can use it for 2-4 hours for a shoot. You can use public parks (but most will require a permit for "commercial" photography so you usually don't want to linger or use a tripod--which for many is the standard for "commercial" photography). With individually owned space, you have the best chances of getting approval. A business card helps your credibility. Samples of your work also helps. Providing something for them helps. Having insurance helps.

 

[vato_loco]

Or... you could try approaching them face to face and just leave the book out of it altogether!

If I spotted them down the street, I'd probably lack the guts to approach them. I really should change that...

Generally for TF*, I ask models to arrive H/MU Ready (Hair/Make-up Ready) and put the responsibility for that on their shoulders. If it's a larger project, or one with a couple of different looks, I will first try and find an MUA who is willing to work TF*, and if not, then yes, I would split 50/50 with the model. If a shoot is TF*, then it's TF*, so the it doesn't matter how professional or amateur the model is.

Makeup and hair ready sounds good, and it makes sense that if there is the need for a MUA, I'd try to find a TF* as well.

If I was going to use a hotel, I would tell them what I was going to be doing to ensure there were no issues.

Roger that. Suddenly I don't feel like using hotels anymore.

Multiple questions, multiple answers...

1. Post ads on University bulletin boards in art and design departments. This can be particularly effective with TF--you get a clothing designer in school who wants photos showing off her portfolio and will pose in exchange. Think of jobs/industries where individuals will want/need photos of themselves (like individuals in dance schools, students in theatre programs who need head shots, individuals in cosmetology programs showing their work). Artists need shots of their work and may trade posing time for that. Most universities have a pool of models that they use for figure studies/life studies. Painters often will hire models. Reach out to those resources to see if they can refer someone.

You, sir, are a damn genius.

If you are going to approach someone on the street you should: (a) have a business card so it doesn't come off like a pickup line (b) have a camera with you otherwise it tends to come off like a pickup line and (c) don't be pushy otherwise it comes off like a pickup line.

I'm well aware that most things sound like pickup lines if you don't take the necessary precautions. I'm very cautious about this and so far I've had no complaints. Business cards are a must, I absolutely agree.

2. You should have any model sign a release.

I had this problem already. One of my most gorgeous models suddenly had an issue with nude photographs on the net because of a stalker issue. She asked all the photographers who had taken nude photos of her to put them down. Because the reason was sensitive, I of course agreed and to this day I only have them on my portfolio bag. Another model asked for her glamour photos to be taken down because she had just gotten a boyfriend. I politely declined this request and stated my reasons, which she understood and made no further complaints.

3. It sounds as if you want privacy via the implied comments in your message.

That is correct, for the most part. Portrait and fashion don't need privacy. Glamour underwear it's pretty much a must.

Look at studio rentals (yes, they're out there) and will be cheaper than a hotel room (a decent studio may rent for as little as $20-30 an hour).

No such thing as a good studio around here. There's just two, and they're both a simple infinite background and a couple of strobes. No cool house to move around or anything.

Look at unrented residence or commercial space and contact leasing agents or realtors....they will often "take it in trade" where you shoot photos of the space for them and they let you use the space for a couple of hours.

This is a great idea, I'll definitely try this.

A business card helps your credibility. Samples of your work also helps. Providing something for them helps. Having insurance helps.

I have everything but insurance. No such thing here, I'm afraid. Hell, most of the times I'm afraid of outside shoots because even my gear isn't ensured. This severely limits my shooting spaces, which is why I'm looking for indoor options instead. It's not paranoia, either. Thefts are very real and very often if you're not careful.

Thank you for both your feedbacks. You gave me some great ideas and also confirmed some of the ideas I already had but wasn't so sure were correct.

I think I'll start with two things: approaching women who I want to shoot in person, and go to art uni to call for a model scouting.

After that, I really should polish my contract to make sure I have all the right things in order.