Aggression towards photographers

[Battou]

Yep, I assume threads that start out in such a fantastic manner as that atleast deserve a little attention from the mods.

Not only that but it was started with in minuets of one just like it being closed.

As a moderator on another forum I do understand the mods choice to let it go and see where it goes.



But I think it is over now, It's time to get in line for the next ride.

 

[TheOtherBob]

Your admiration for ratpiss is beyond belief.

Hey, whoa there, man -- name-calling isn't in line with the civility expected on this board, even if you disagree with someone. Can I ask you to please knock it off?

 

[usayit]

Socrates, IIRC you live in my state.

Although I believe the police uniform should be respected, you cannot deny the fact that not all the persons "in-uniform" in our state have earned that respect. In fact, many cross the line and abuse it. I see this practically on a daily basis. This is not to say that everyone who shows distrust or question authority is considered disrespectful. They are entirely two different things. In fact, government was designed to distrust and question..... people should always question authority in a respectful manner... stand up for your rights in a respectful manner.

We are all forgetting we are products of our environment. The police in my fine town far west of 287 (north jersey) are wonderful... they seem to understand the concept of "To serve and protect". Then again... I don't think there has been a violent crime in my town for decades. I don't think the police department has any trouble finding man-power in this attractive area.

As I commute farther east, the police seem to show a bit of disdain to that concept. The beat gets tougher and the police departments struggle to maintain a presence. This impacts both sides of the fence... growing distrust from the community and growing aggression from police (at times resulting into power trips).

I have personally been on the other side of that aggression... It was extremely uncomfortable and it didn't have to be ... I did not appreciate being called and "disrespectful kid" and being yelled at by a Paterson Police officer on route 80 last year. I also did not appreciate the threat of being "fanned" with tickets. (Yes.. it happens enough that people have placed a name to it) Officer immediately profiled me making a false assumption as I'm 33 who looks like I'm in my early 20s with a red car often owned by teen agers (Neon). What did I do wrong? I simply asked what I was being pulled over for. That 1 time resulted in me walking around with a chip on my shoulder for all police officers for MONTHS! Now just imagine if I lived in Newark or Paterson dealing with that every day of my life... friends and family members who I care for also going through the same treatment? I can't be sure I would have enough will power to prevent that chip on my shoulder from growing into a "hatred" for the uniform. I consider myself fortunate....

Sorry for the rambling but I just wanted to point out that a lot of statements being thrown around with little effort to understand this fact.



Honestly... the best way to deal with an police confrontation is to politely answer with simple responses ("yes sir", "no sir") and say nothing more to avoid escalation (the officer too might be on a heightened state of emotion). On some occasions, I've simply asked if I am under-arrest and (assuming not) told the officer I will be on my way. I've learned that the street is no place to discuss who is in the wrong or right... all it does is cause escalation.



btw.. The Unformed police in Texas (my home state) especially the County Sheriffs seemed a lot more laid back.. kinda miss that. That's a big statement considering I'm probably one of the biggest pessimists I know.... all my friends and family make fun of me for being "too serious" all the time.


yes.. I RESPECTFULLY question (distrust seems too strong of a word) all authority. People in uniform are people too.. in fact they are strangers... AND NO... I do not "have issues with authority and probably put anarchy symbols on their binders in high school." As someone put it... :x


Damn.. its 4am and I have got to get to work at 7am. Can't sleep. Oh yeh... I avoid route 80 big time. Anyone visiting my area should also try to avoid 80. Haven't had one ticket or confrontation since I started taking an alternate route.

 

[Socrates]

Hey, whoa there, man -- name-calling isn't in line with the civility expected on this board, even if you disagree with someone. Can I ask you to please knock it off?

You're right but it upsets me when this individual has spent his time browsing the web attempting to ruin the officer's reputation and has identified the officer by name and department.

 

[Rand0m411]

Do you trust your government? Do you trust your police?

What if you called a cop and no one came?

 

[Socrates]

What if you called a cop and no one came?

:thumbup:

 

[Rick Waldroup]

You guys are missing the point. I am not anti-cop. In the work I do, I deal with them on a regular basis.

I do not, however, want to tolerate an abuse of authority by those we are supposed to trust.

And for what it is worth, there are a whole lot of things about our current government that I do not trust at all.

Also, I was never endorsing what ratplant did. In fact, I think the guy has way to much time on his hands. Who cares about a cop hanging out at a 7-11? What I did not like was the reason the cop pulled him over.

 

[THORHAMMER]

Ill admit there are good police and bad police, overall they are good, I just think we should not give up our legal rights so easily. Besides that I actually think some cops are cool guys. I have more of a problem with the bush admin laws regarding security and local security guards who do not know the law then I do with cops.


Update:
the guy who put he in handcuffs for 30 minutes for doing nothing wrong (in LB)
finally we had a meeting sort of a mediation thing. He actually apologized. I was blown away, met with him and the station commander last week.

He said that he was afraid because I was bigger then he was and when he got me out of the car he looked up at me and got spooked I guess.. ? weird, i dont 100% buy it, but his reason was that he didnt want to break leather (pull his gun) on a middle class looking guy, he did the handcuffs on the curb bit. I guess its the lesser of the 2. If he pulled the gun I would be suing now....

I thought this was hilarious coming from a guy with a baton and a gun. I don't consider myself a big guy @6ft 3 and 220 pounds, though I've been working out a lot lately, I hardly look like a thug.
but he was like 5'5 , .. whatever..... still suspicious reasoning I think...


But at least I could see where he was coming from, I could tell hes gotten written up probably. I got a chance to show him my portfolio and he was really blown away, he didn't even know night time photography existed. At least he wont fly off on some other photographer now right ?

helped me a lot to realize they make mistakes just like we do.

Heres the thing to do according to him.

If you know they were called, just wait for them, getting in the car and leaving freaks them out even more.

approaching them on the sidewalk in the open as opposed to the car will never get you in handcuffs , thats it, filed away for future reference.

Still, he should have chilled out. but oh well now I have an apologetic station commanders cell ph number. Could come in handy someday...

 

[usayit]

What if you called a cop and no one came?

Questioning and distrusting the government is not the same as being anti-government.

You should always question authority. Those that signed the Declaration of Independence did exactly that..... questioned the authority of English rule.




fyi: Handcuffs do not equal arrest. I've been put into handcuffs with the cops explaining that it was for their safety and mine. After the incident was figured out and the threat was (in their mind) eliminated, the cuffs were removed with their apology.

 

[THORHAMMER]

I never said I was arrested !!

but thanks for the info.

 

[Rand0m411]

Ill admit there are good police and bad police, overall they are good, I just think we should not give up our legal rights so easily. Besides that I actually think some cops are cool guys. I have more of a problem with the bush admin laws regarding security and local security guards who do not know the law then I do with cops.


Update:
the guy who put he in handcuffs for 30 minutes for doing nothing wrong (in LB)
finally we had a meeting sort of a mediation thing. He actually apologized. I was blown away, met with him and the station commander last week.

He said that he was afraid because I was bigger then he was and when he got me out of the car he looked up at me and got spooked I guess.. ? weird, i dont 100% buy it, but his reason was that he didnt want to break leather (pull his gun) on a middle class looking guy, he did the handcuffs on the curb bit. I guess its the lesser of the 2. If he pulled the gun I would be suing now....

I thought this was hilarious coming from a guy with a baton and a gun. I don't consider myself a big guy @6ft 3 and 220 pounds, though I've been working out a lot lately, I hardly look like a thug.
but he was like 5'5 , .. whatever..... still suspicious reasoning I think...


But at least I could see where he was coming from, I could tell hes gotten written up probably. I got a chance to show him my portfolio and he was really blown away, he didn't even know night time photography existed. At least he wont fly off on some other photographer now right ?

helped me a lot to realize they make mistakes just like we do.

Heres the thing to do according to him.

If you know they were called, just wait for them, getting in the car and leaving freaks them out even more.

approaching them on the sidewalk in the open as opposed to the car will never get you in handcuffs , thats it, filed away for future reference.

Still, he should have chilled out. but oh well now I have an apologetic station commanders cell ph number. Could come in handy someday...

You nailed it on the head. Every police officer out on the street is constantly putting their life on the line. A simple traffic stop or domestic disturbance complaint can easily turn into a situation where a police officers life is in danger. When a cop pulls you over, he has no idea what is going to happen, if your going to pull a gun because your wanted for something else, or if you just a regular citizen. So cops become very cautious. So when he told you he was spooked, that was the truth. Especially if he didnt have any back up. Cops get really nervous being in an unknown situation alone.

Most cops are out there helping people and keeping people safe. Are there a few hard arses? yup. Just comes with the territory, your talking about people whom have seen it all. Which is pretty much the worst part of humanity that we dont see on a daily basis. They see nothing but that, everyday.

I know thats just my opinion. And everyone else has their own. But my step father was a homicide detective for 27 years. And I have known police officers (family friends) that have died in the line of duty. So, you may know in your camera bag your sporting nothing but a camera. Any smart cop is going to know that in that camera case there could be a gun. Its his job to keep everyone safe and himself alive.

Like Socrates and a few other have said, just be curtious and use simple "yes, sir" "No, sir" answers. Cops feel more comfortable and relaxed when they know you respect them.

I dont want to sound like you have to bow down and give up your rights. Believe me Im all about standing up for myself and my rights which I have done on many occasion. Matter of fact I have been hassled out on the street and searched. Made the cops mad when I started getting testy and irritated with them and gave them a speech about my rights. They get hostile at bad attitudes. Once I learned that and turned it around, I've been able to talk my way out of most situations easily enough just by being nice.

 

[abraxas]

You ...

How about you? You got any photos you can show?

 

[Rand0m411]

How about you? You got any photos you can show?

Sure, I need to figure out how to start a user gallery (I dont see how to create mine). Otherwise all my photo posts are in the technical assignments and challenges sections. Im not very good but im willing to show what I have .

 

[abraxas]

:thumbup:

Socs,

I even doubt the authenticity of your cheerleading. C'mon, show us what the window to your soul sees. Show us some of your work. I'd love to see your photos. You ever take any, or are you just here to cause problems and provoke?

 

[abraxas]

Sure, I need to figure out how to start a user gallery (I dont see how to create mine). Otherwise all my photo posts are in the technical assignments and challenges sections. Im not very good but im willing to show what I have .

Jeez, forgive me, I could have swore you're just trolling.