Aggression towards photographers

Socrates · Apr 1, 2008

Village Idiot said:
I've never been bothered before, which is surprising as normally when I'm taking pictures of cops, I'm usually pretty drunk.

:lmao:

Been there, done that but I didn't even have a camera with me!

Socrates · Apr 1, 2008

Alex_B said:
wow.

that was a very reasonable reply.

He was a lot more reasonable than I would have been.

THORHAMMER · Apr 1, 2008

I dont know about anyone else, but if I were investigating something or someone, I wouldnt ask permission before taking a picture, then they have a chance to stop doing whatever it is they are doing wrong. (if anything)

That being said, I can see their anxiety, I would take pictures of cops doing something illegal, or speeding excessively, or something thats really unsafe, if it was happening right in front of me and I had a good shot I'd take it. But in that situation I would not ask permission.

Long coffee breaks, I dont know,
not so dangerous.

I guess I can actually see the cops side of this in that he be pissed. Maybe his shift doesnt start yet and this is his morning ritual before starting.
Maybe they are keeping a relationship with the owner so they can get info from him on stuff that happens in front of the store, who knows.

One thing to note is you didnt have to show him the picture. but he didnt force you to either, no harm no foul.

If you werent speeding he would have to drive away probably. Its the speeding which gives him the green light.

In todays police state, I dont care if the cop is goofing off on the job as long as he leaves me alone.

Its a sad logic I know, but its the truth ive come to accept.

Mike_E · Apr 1, 2008

Please take the lesson boys and girls: Don't play with fire, else when you're hungry for toasted marshmallows you will have run out of matches.

Matt.H · Apr 1, 2008

I hope to see you out someday RP. I will snap a few pictures of you and drive off. How would you feel?

Battou · Apr 1, 2008

I periodically run into a police officer on a coffee break when turning in/waiting for film/prints, I rather enjoy his company.

I'll try to get a pic next time I see him.

Dubious Drewski · Apr 1, 2008

Fascinating thread!

But on a somewhat similar note: who here has regular success shooting people without causing anger or distress? When I first started shooting seriously some years ago, I would shoot people without asking. This of course created some seriously awkward situations. I had some people swear at me. I had someone almost chase me. I learned quickly how hard candid street photography must be.

Of course the age-old problem is that if you ask for permission first, the people stop acting naturally - and if you shoot without asking, you offend them. Oi Vey!

These days I don't shoot people too often, unless it's in the studio!

Edit: I normally hate to be judgemental, but I can't resist in RatPlant's case. What disgusting behaviour. That was very unreasonable of you, and your requests are anal retentive and asinine. Seeing as this was your first post, you might want to consider discarding this username and starting another, so that we here at TPF cannot recognize you in the future. You have thoroughly tarnished that name.

PhotoJoe22 · Apr 11, 2008

a few years ago while helping on a swimsuit calandar shoot in Niagara Falls, cops pulled up and told us we needed a permit to have light stands and such.After talking with them and explaining it was for the new basketball team and taking a few pics of them with the models, they pretty much hung out and made sure no one bothered us.

usayit · Apr 11, 2008

I guarantee that wouldn't be the case in NYC....

but in a way I understand...

Rick Waldroup · Apr 12, 2008

The cop stopped ratplant because he took a picture of him.

Do you guys think that is right?

Here you go- you guys tell me if you think this is right:

After being stopped and questioned numerous times while out street shooting, I bought a t-shirt that read, Street Photographer-Not a Terrorist. I wore it several times while out shooting and was stopped by a police officer in Fort Worth, who thought it was funny and wanted to know where I got it. However, a couple of weeks later, in downtown Dallas, a couple of officers did not think it was funny at all.

I was standing on a corner at noon, shooting, when a cop car pulled up. The driver motioned me over and asked me if I thought my shirt was funny. I told him that, yes, I did. He and his partner got out of the car and started questioning me about why I was wearing such a shirt. I asked them if I was being detained because of a t-shirt that I was wearing. I never got an answer to that question. Instead, another cop car showed up. Now, in the middle of downtown Dallas, on a busy street corner at lunchtime, I am involved with 4 police officers questioning me about a shirt that I am wearing. Does anyone see anything wrong with this?

After about 10 minutes of this bull****, I finally asked one of the officers if I was going to be arrested. If not, then I wanted to be on my way. They let me go, with a warning to be careful about what I was taking photos of. Basically what it came down to, was that a cop got pissed off about a shirt I was wearing. That's it. Do any of you think that it was okay for the cops to stop me and question me about a shirt I was wearing?

I have been stopped and questioned many times since 9/11. I have always responded in a polite and civil manner. Not any more. Since the incident in Dallas, I now question the police or security guards everytime I am stopped as to what their motives are. It has now gotten to the point that if I am stopped and questioned and I feel that it is unreasonable, I tell them to either arrest me on the spot or take a hike. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Screw em.

It happened just the other day. I was in downtown Fort Worth, shooting a very nice, old building with some interesting columns. I took a couple of shots and then walked across the street to a park area. When I crossed the street, I heard someone yelling at me. I turned around and it was a security guard. I walked back over and he asked me what I was taking pictures of. I told him. He then said that it looked like I was taking photos of the federal court house. To tell you the truth, I did not even notice the courthouse, but it was right next to the building I was taking photos of. He asked to see the photos. I very calmly showed them to him. In one of the shots, I caught the corner of the courthouse. He asked me to delete the photo. At that point, I literally told him to get lost. I turned the camera off and told him that I was going to walk across the street to the park and that if he or his superiors or the police needed to talk to me, that is where I would be. I walked across the street into the park and that was the last I saw of the fellow. We have to stand up for our rights.

I don't want to live in a police state. And that is what is happening to our country.

So what if ratplant took a photo of a cop. Did that give the cop a justifiable reason to pull him over?

And for those that may wonder, I am not anti-police. I simply do not want to live in a police state. Do any of you?

patrickt · Apr 12, 2008

We had a group of tourists who all had nice cameras and were being exceedly rude in taking pictures of local people. So, when they settled down in a cafe and ordered beer I ran over and got as close and obnoxious as they had been with locals and started taking photos. They got very aggressive. Is this the kind of story you want?

As far as aggression from any authority, a police officer stopped to ask me what I was doing when I had a camera on a tripod in a downtown alley at three a.m. back in 1962. I had one security guard in a mall tell me I couldn't take pictures and when I asked a private company if I could take some photos on their property they refused and then changed their mind and allowed me to shoot. That's it.

THORHAMMER · Apr 12, 2008

patrickt said:
We had a group of tourists who all had nice cameras and were being exceedly rude in taking pictures of local people. So, when they settled down in a cafe and ordered beer I ran over and got as close and obnoxious as they had been with locals and started taking photos. They got very aggressive. Is this the kind of story you want?

As far as aggression from any authority, a police officer stopped to ask me what I was doing when I had a camera on a tripod in a downtown alley at three a.m. back in 1962. I had one security guard in a mall tell me I couldn't take pictures and when I asked a private company if I could take some photos on their property they refused and then changed their mind and allowed me to shoot. That's it.

lets say it was very rude of the photographers, ok fine, they were in the wrong and were rude. But;

This is not even in the same ballpark as police officers sworn to uphold the LAW behaving unruly and wasting our tax money giving a guy a hard time cause of a shirt he is wearing ? not the same thing at all. They approached him not the other way around. your talking bananas and grapes here.

Ricks post is not about rudeness, or courtesy thats another topic, but about the LAW and police state activity.

Your saying If I got a ticket for listening to music in my car in my driveway with my windows rolled up and you cannot hear it more then 5 feet away, its OK because some guy down the street was playing his music all the way up at a light... Not the same thing. Lets be logical here.

Socrates · Apr 12, 2008

I have noticed over the years that those individuals that are polite and courteous don't seem to have their "rights trampled on." On the other hand, some individuals appear to attract that type of response. Hmmm...

As far as ratplant is concerned, I believe that the chief should have posted the complaint letter on the bulletin board along with his plate number and a description of his car. I admire the department for their restraint and the very reasonable response.

notelliot · Apr 12, 2008

Dubious Drewski said:
Of course the age-old problem is that if you ask for permission first, the people stop acting naturally - and if you shoot without asking, you offend them. Oi Vey!

shoot from the hip.

if you're close, cough.

the last time i had an incident, i asked to see documentation of the restrictions of photography in the specified area (security guard). he started to say that none existed, and i cut him off to say, "all right, see ya". he paused and left. i left shortly after, as i thought i was a bit too curt.

BPALMER · Apr 12, 2008

Originally Posted by ratplant

I just recently had a run-in with a cop who stopped me after I used my cell phone to take a picture of him and his patrol car in a 7-Eleven parking lot. The details are here:
http://rashynullplanet.com/blog/2008...ose-encounter/

Shortly after that unpleasantness, I came across this list of photographers' rights:
http://photojojo.com/content/tips/le...photographers/

That list on PhotoJoJo is based on info from an attorney in Oregon. Does anyone know if it's applicable to Michigan as well?

Thanks!

--Matt

2. The officer should be disciplined.
3. Inform me what the officers name is, so I have it for my records.
4. Inform me what discipline the officer receives, also for my records.
5. Forward a copy of this note to the city attorney who should advise the police department what Michigan law says regarding photography of police officers and their vehicles.
6. Send me a copy of the city attorneys advice to the police department. Via email is sufficient.
7. Send me a copy of the police departments policy regarding photography of police. Via email is sufficient. If no such policy exists, the police department should develop one. The policy should also be posted on the police departments web site.
8. Copies of disciplinary action records and all correspondence regarding this incident should be placed in the officers personnel file.
9. Provide me with copies of the audio and video from the officers patrol car video camera and any audio captured by any microphone the officer was wearing. Via email as MP3 and/or MPG files is sufficient.
10. Guarantee me, in writing, that neither the officer nor anyone from the Dearborn Heights police department or any other Dearborn Heights city department will attempt any retaliation, intimidation, or harassment of me or my family because of this incident, this complaint, or anything that results from it. Please send this last item via US Postal Service. My mailing address can be gotten from the officer who stopped me and checked my driving record.

ARE YOU FOR REAL????
SOUNDS MORE TO ME LIKE YOU ARE HARRASSING THE COPS,sorry i find it hard to see your view on this knowing full well how difficult it can be to do their job.....surely there are better ways for you to occupy your time then to watch over the local pd