ARRGHHH.. I thought I had it..

[Chewbecca]

actually, since you are not able to shoot your SB600 off of your camera, my advice doesn't apply.

I have no idea what to tell you to do. ANDS! probably knows what he's talking about. And since you are shooting with it ON your camera, now I understand WHY you had your EC to -2.

 

[ANDS!]

I think the only reason that picture was NOT blown out/way over-exposed is because of your f5.6 and your -2 EV.

Yea, because the guys ISO was at 800.

ANDS! a shutter speed of 1/60 is enough to freeze slight children movements?
Without any camera shake/blur appearance?

If they move fast enough, of course 1/60 might be too slow. If the kids are THAT erratic where they can't stay still for 1/60th of a second, then he can move up to ISO 250/320, and dial in a SS of 1/100th or so. 1/60 though should be more than adequate even if they are interacting with each other. Their hands and hair might be fast enough, but freezing faces, and only showing imperceptible movement is possible.

In this photo, the woman is eating, her hand is obviously faster than 1/80th of a second, but her head isn't. This was shot, with an SB600 at 1/80 F/3.2 and ISO400.

The SB600 is a relatively powerful flash, and it will compensate for whatever Shutter Speed/Aperture you choose. If you happen to choose such a fast/narrow Shutter Speed/Aperture that even at Full Power your SB600 cant control, then you can start looking at exposure compensations, and upping the ISO. But in a well lit room, you shouldn't need to tweak your settings THAT much.

All this exposure compensation and ISO800 (which might be plausible if he were shooting pictures of his kids from across the room), is just - madness for this situation and isn't necessary.

 

[stsinner]

ANDS! I appreciate the help, but Manual has given me a sound ass-kicking in the past, and there were some very generous people who stuck with me for a while while I tried different settings, but it got so long-winded and so little progress was made that people started losing interest.. That's why I went to AP mode-at least I don't have so many chances to screw it up..

When I don't use aperture priority mode, I don't have the availability of slow sync mode, which I think I really need in this case to allow the small lights of the Christmas tree to come through and warm the scene before the flash fires. I don't know how to achieve this effect in Manual, much less take a good picture.. AP is the only mode on my camera in which slow flash sync is an option.

Here's a comparison for illustration purposes, and again, in AP mode with and without slow sync. Keep in mind, these two pictures are identical settings, SB600 mounted.

Without slow sync-boring:

And with the flash in slow sync:

What do you think? Think I can do that in Manual with the right advice? I put my camera in Manual like you suggested and set the shutter to 1/60, ISO 200, Auto WB, flash on normal with SB600 in TTL mode and I got useable pictures. These pictures aren't bad, but the lights of the Christmas tree are just obliterated. Would metering on the pellet stove help this, and if so, how the heck do you meter off of something other than your subject?

Here are the Manual shots. They are painfully plain, but they're in manual:

 

[Overread]

The lights look fairly similar to me in both shots - however there is noticable softness when you use the slow sync. The effect you want is a warmer shot which is comming from the slower shutter speed and thus longer exposure, but thus won't work with children.
Best thing I can think of is going with the manual settings - getting the shot with motion fozen and then playing with the whitebalance - that should be able to get a simlar look to the first shot back. Just remember that if you increase the temperaure for more warmth don't forget to lower the tint to retain the greens in teh shot

 

[stsinner]

Awesome, Overread.. I'll try that.. I was trying to accomplish this shot without PP, but maybe it's just not possible.

One big difference in the slow-sync shot is that the tree seems to glow and can be seen radiating light onto the wall. In the first one the wall just looks cold.

 

[Overread]

Yah I saw that, but I guess that light is either too weak for a fast shutter speed or its being washed over by the flash. The only way I could think to keep the lights like that and the children was with HDR and photo merging - one shot with the kids and then another for the background - but that is not only a lot of PP but the lighting difference on the kids (I think) would be notiable to the background. Blending the two might be possible but I suspect it would take a lot of work - especially when working on the original photos

 

[ANDS!]

The problem is you are trying to get "weak" lights to "radiate" which in turn washes everthing else out in the glow of the dominant light source.

If you are trying to create drama with your try, use a 1/200 or faster speed, place your kids, aid the flash on them only, and you'll get bright tree lights, as well as properly lit kids.

But realistically what you want (radiating, "bright" tree lights) combined with a properly exposed shot of your kids - its just not the combination I would go with.

I think you gotta get back to basics man; it seems like youre tossing so much into these shots that you don't have to to get "nice" Xmas photos.

Heres a quick one I took for a coworker:

Can tell we have a Xmas tree in the background, but the subject is still the subject.

 

[stsinner]

Are you telling me that there is no way to have a picture of my kids with the tree well exposed and well lit? I find that hard to believe....

I don't exactly need the clarity of razor bumps like your subject has from shaving.. Since it's a co-worker, you might tell him that if he shaves the night before and right after getting out of the shower that the bumps are almost nonexistent.. Or maybe the shot was spur of the moment..

I know you mentioned a zoom lens, and I do have a 70-300, but I would really like the pellet stove and the tree in the shot... There has to be a way.. I've known some pretty dumb people that could take some pretty impressive pictures, and now I'm feeling pretty dumb for not being able to make this shot work...

 

[AlexColeman]

Interesting, test first, then try and tie down the kids.

 

[stsinner]

Interesting, test first, then try and tie down the kids.

LOL... Sometime I feel like it!!

 

[ANDS!]

The tree is well exposed and well lit. What you are trying to do, to get the Christmas light on the tree, which are weaker than the ambient lighting and the SB600, to "glow" in such a way as to add character, while at the same time maintaining a fast shutter speed to keep your subjects focused and sharp - is going to be a problem. So you can either get new Christmas lights that burn very bright, and will glow for you - or you can try and get a creative tree shot in a different way.

Since it's a co-worker, you might tell him that if he shaves the night before and right after getting out of the shower that the bumps are almost nonexistent..

What does this have to do with anything, other than being a bit of a not to subtle case of snark? You wanted help, you're getting help. If you want to be told that what you are trying to do is possible with what you have - I'm sure there are forums that will pander to you and give you that.

And its a she by the way, shot with a macro lens.

 

[manaheim]

stsinner... I'm saying this to help, so don't get mad, ok? My personal opinion is you way overcomplicate things for yourself in general.

You're relatively new and I think you're killing yourself by trying all this funky stuff without even getting the absolute basics down. In my opinion, you should have that camera locked into Program mode like 99% of the time. (not Auto, mind you... Auto sucks... Program, however, has it's uses)

Look at this pic I took of my girls last year...

It's not absolutely perfect, but I think it's quite good. (hard to get a perfect shot when the girls don't cooperate)

What did I do?

1. Put it in Program mode.
2. Put a tupperware diffuser on my SB-600.
3. Knocked the power down on the flash a couple clicks.
4. Pointed the flash at the ceiling.
5. Pressed the shutter button.

Hand-held, point and shoot.

I tend to think if you keep things to the basics you'll be pretty happy with your results most of the time. Usually people with a bit less experience don't always notice the kinds of things that only manual modes and funky methods will get for them.

Take it slow.

 

[stsinner]

What does this have to do with anything, other than being a bit of a not to subtle case of snark? You wanted help, you're getting help. If you want to be told that what you are trying to do is possible with what you have - I'm sure there are forums that will pander to you and give you that.

And its a she by the way, shot with a macro lens.

Look-I'm sorry.. Boy, do I have egg on my face.. I thought it was a dude, and was in no was trying to be snarky.... Nose, eyebrows and chin bumps screamed dude-sorry!! Didn't meant to offend you.. Just offering advice, as I've had razor bump problems in photos before.. I had no idea that your picture was a girl and meant no offense...

 

[stsinner]

Chris, that picture of your daughters is adorable and perfectly exposed.. Unfortunately, unlike your picture where there are only 4 colors, I have different colored lights, background, etc.. I guess I'd just like to be told if this type of warm shot is impossible with my gear...

Wow... After looking at it again, isn't it perfect.. I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't something wrong with my gear.....

 

[manaheim]

Chris, that picture of your daughters is adorable and perfectly exposed.. Unfortunately, unlike your picture where there are only 4 colors, I have different colored lights, background, etc.. I guess I'd just like to be told if this type of warm shot is impossible with my gear...

I guarantee you'd get the same results, man. I have others of that same day with a fire in the background, colored lights on a wreath, etc.

I tell you what... try it. If it really doesn't work, I'll hoof it out to visit you and we'll figure the damned thing out.