Beginner's lighting. What do you want to know?

[adikrist]

Hi, i'm totally newbie.. The topics in this thread are too complex for me, but i have simple question which related to lighting..

When taking photo of a person with background at nighttime, how can i create a nice photo? I personally don't like using flash as it makes the person's face somehow shinny and the background darker, but i guess one has to do this when taking pic at night. Any trick to make person's face not too shinny and at the same time the background still look nice? Will it help with longer shutter ( without flash )?

Thanks.

 

[tirediron]

You need to get the flash off of the camera and use a modifier (diffuser, soft-box, umbrella) to soften the light. Shooting without the flash may work, but it may also require longer shutter times than you can comfortably hand-hold and/or longer than the subject can sit still.

 

[sovietdoc]

I hate the built-in flash. because you can't control the power output it's very hard to get suitable color..

 

[Raizels]

OK, my question: (someone tried to answer it before, but I feel I need more info)

How do I take pictures of flowers on sunlight without overexposing parts of it?
Or: how do I take pictures of flowers in direct sunlight without making it look flat?

and... define "flat"?

The problem you're having here is that direct sunlight is harsh. It's a small light source, like a bare flash head with a reflector (any general speed light with no modifier basically), and small light sources produce hard light.

Hard light is light that is focused and creates defined, hard edged shadows.

When you have an object that has texture, hard light is going to cause portions that aren't directly facing that light source to quickly be covered in shadows, having only smaller portions of that object exposed to the main light with others underexposed in the shadows.

To take photos of flowers in direct sunlight, you would need a fill flash, reflector, or some other light source to help illuminate the rest of the flower to be closer to the correct exposure of the parts of the flowers that are in direct sun light.

That's if you're shooting when it's sunny and cloudless.

Flat = a very even exposure lacking contrast.

A dynamincally lit exposure:

A flat exposure:

The first photo has a lot of contrast between the shadows and the highlight where the second photo is pretty much evenly lit all the way across the board with the only variances coming from the light from the sun and the shadows across the back wall.

When it's cloudly outside, the clouds act like a giant softbox. They turn the sun from a small light source into a huge light source. The light from the sun hits the clouds and reflects bouncing around on everything and creating very soft, vague shadows.

If you're photographing flowers in these conditions, they're most likely going to be evenly lit without and big contrast variations creating a flat exposure. To combat this, you can do editing in PhotoShop or create your own dynamic light. A reflector would be less effective in this scenario, so using a flash as the key (or main) light and underexposing the the ambient by a stop or three would create a dynamic lighting setup. With a setup like this, you're going to want to use a modifier like an umbrella, that diffuses the light giving it a nice soft shadow, so you're not getting the hard edges.

And remember this, the smaller the light source, the harder the light and shadows it creates. So as you increase the size of the light source, you make the light softer and the shadows softer.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer this - I only notioced it today sorry.

I never thought o the sun as a small light source, that's something I need to absorb.
Basically, I guess you're saying that I need to find the balance between underexposed images and flat images.

Thanks again.

 

[Village Idiot]

ok i read every page of this thread so far and great info and links to point someone wanting to learn in the right direction.

now onto my question on home lighting. What are some of the brands/bulbs you would use in home lighting. I don't want to set up a studio or anything, just get the best out of the light fixtures and lamps already in our home. I mostly looking for any specific brand that is truly full spectrum and brighter so there is less of a need for flash indoors and still be able to use higher shutter speeds (not crazy high, but a 7 month old is never still enough. would building a few DIY softboxes on lamps be an idea.

This is tricky, because there can be color temperture variances between bulbs of the same brand. I'd buy the brightest bulbs you can afford. Also, making hot light softboxes could prove to be a fire hazard as the bulbs can get really hot.

 

[Village Idiot]

Hi, i'm totally newbie.. The topics in this thread are too complex for me, but i have simple question which related to lighting..

When taking photo of a person with background at nighttime, how can i create a nice photo? I personally don't like using flash as it makes the person's face somehow shinny and the background darker, but i guess one has to do this when taking pic at night. Any trick to make person's face not too shinny and at the same time the background still look nice? Will it help with longer shutter ( without flash )?

Thanks.

As tirediron posted, you need to stronger off camera light source with a modifier. A modifier like an umbrella would create a large light source which would create a soft light that should generally not cause blown out high lights on a person's face.

Also, the problem with the black back ground you're describing is due to light fall off from the under powered onboard flash.

This is due to the inverse square law:

so an object (of the same size) twice as far away, receives only one-quarter the energy (in the same time period).

I'm not sure how to describe this as simply as possible, but think of it this way. The farther your flash is from a subject, the more distance you can have between them and the background for an evenly exposed photo. The closer your flash is to your properly exposed subject, the more light fall off you'll have behind them and the bigger the exposure difference will be.

Zack Arias has the best explanation, I've personally seen, for this on his lighting DVD, but here's a decent chart from a portion of his site:
zarias.com :: The blog of editorial photographer Zack Arias White Seamless Tutorial :: Part 3 :: From White To Black.

As you can see below, there's a difference in the exposure between the subject and the background, but you can still see the background and details in it. That's because when I was shooting, my light source was off camera and pulled back so that I wouldn't have had a lot of light fall off. If I would have moved it up and exposed my subject, he would have been lit correctly and the background would have been darker.



Sorry, it's Monday morning, my brain doesn't start functioning until Sunday evening. :mrgreen:

OK, my question: (someone tried to answer it before, but I feel I need more info)

How do I take pictures of flowers on sunlight without overexposing parts of it?
Or: how do I take pictures of flowers in direct sunlight without making it look flat?

and... define "flat"?

The problem you're having here is that direct sunlight is harsh. It's a small light source, like a bare flash head with a reflector (any general speed light with no modifier basically), and small light sources produce hard light.

Hard light is light that is focused and creates defined, hard edged shadows.

When you have an object that has texture, hard light is going to cause portions that aren't directly facing that light source to quickly be covered in shadows, having only smaller portions of that object exposed to the main light with others underexposed in the shadows.

To take photos of flowers in direct sunlight, you would need a fill flash, reflector, or some other light source to help illuminate the rest of the flower to be closer to the correct exposure of the parts of the flowers that are in direct sun light.

That's if you're shooting when it's sunny and cloudless.

Flat = a very even exposure lacking contrast.

A dynamincally lit exposure:

A flat exposure:

The first photo has a lot of contrast between the shadows and the highlight where the second photo is pretty much evenly lit all the way across the board with the only variances coming from the light from the sun and the shadows across the back wall.

When it's cloudly outside, the clouds act like a giant softbox. They turn the sun from a small light source into a huge light source. The light from the sun hits the clouds and reflects bouncing around on everything and creating very soft, vague shadows.

If you're photographing flowers in these conditions, they're most likely going to be evenly lit without and big contrast variations creating a flat exposure. To combat this, you can do editing in PhotoShop or create your own dynamic light. A reflector would be less effective in this scenario, so using a flash as the key (or main) light and underexposing the the ambient by a stop or three would create a dynamic lighting setup. With a setup like this, you're going to want to use a modifier like an umbrella, that diffuses the light giving it a nice soft shadow, so you're not getting the hard edges.

And remember this, the smaller the light source, the harder the light and shadows it creates. So as you increase the size of the light source, you make the light softer and the shadows softer.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer this - I only notioced it today sorry.

I never thought o the sun as a small light source, that's something I need to absorb.
Basically, I guess you're saying that I need to find the balance between underexposed images and flat images.

Thanks again.

Dynamic lighting is created by contrast. Just think of how you can position your light to create the contrast you want for a photo.

I believe I've probably answered a question in this thread with this already, but think of light as a visible object. Not in the sense as we see light now where it reflects off an object and we see it, but as the rays of light as something you can see. Visualize how these are emitting from your light source, being altered by any modifiers, and striking your subject. Remember they get weaker as they travel away from their light source.

Trying to visualize the light will help you see how your subject will be lit before you actually take the photo.

 

[Raizels]

Very interesting concept - light is an object I can visualize. Will take tons of practice. Thanks!

 

[Corvphotography]

so if i buy a speed light flash and i buy a radio trigger, could i have a buddy hold the speed light flash a few feet away while i shoot the model and the flash will go off at the same time? is that how it works?

 

[Village Idiot]

so if i buy a speed light flash and i buy a radio trigger, could i have a buddy hold the speed light flash a few feet away while i shoot the model and the flash will go off at the same time? is that how it works?

Yes.

But there are easier ways that having to depend on a person to hold the flash for you.

You can buy a cheap light stand for $20-$30, and an umbrella adapter with cold shoe for $15-$20.

And you have to look at unmodified light vs. modified light.

 

[edouble]

I am jumping in on this thread!

I just bought two sb800's, a pair of Flashpoint 9' stands with two clamps, two Westcott convertible umbrellas and a Cactus v4 transmitter with two v4 receivers.

I will be shooting the flashes in full manual. My d5000 does not have a flash commander.

I love high contrast images. What should I photograph to practice with my new setup? My finance gets bored after 30 seconds LOL.

 

[Village Idiot]

I am jumping in on this thread!

I just bought two sb800's, a pair of Flashpoint 9' stands with two clamps, two Westcott convertible umbrellas and a Cactus v4 transmitter with two v4 receivers.

I will be shooting the flashes in full manual. My d5000 does not have a flash commander.

I love high contrast images. What should I photograph to practice with my new setup? My finance gets bored after 30 seconds LOL.

Goats!

 

[edouble]

Lol I have been practicing and will post up in another thread.

 

[tirediron]

I am jumping in on this thread!

I just bought two sb800's, a pair of Flashpoint 9' stands with two clamps, two Westcott convertible umbrellas and a Cactus v4 transmitter with two v4 receivers.

I will be shooting the flashes in full manual. My d5000 does not have a flash commander.

I love high contrast images. What should I photograph to practice with my new setup? My finance gets bored after 30 seconds LOL.

Goats!

Llamas; just as smelly, but with cuter faces!

 

[edouble]

Lol I have been practicing and will post up in another thread.

 

[Sonoma]

So! I am new to the flash thing too, and have a couple of questions.
These may have been covered, but I just want to make sure I understand completely.

I just recently purchased this flash....http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600862-REG/Vivitar_DF_383_CAN_DF_383_Series_1.htmlhttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600866-REG/Vivitar_DF_383_OLY_DF_383_Series_1.html.....for my Canon EOS Rebel. I did indeed purchase the one for Canon! Thanks

1.) Is it true that the "Flash Compensation" adjustment built into the camera will also affect the output of an E-TTL flash in the hotshoe?

2.) When bouncing the flash does the material you're bouncing off of have to be a lighter color, like white? What happens if the walls are paneled in a darker color?

3.) The flash I purchased has a "zoom head"; if I use a lens longer that 80mm will this cause any problems?

Thanks for the help!
Gary