Concerning the Exposure Debate... (i'm gonna get flamed!)

[amolitor]

Underexposing? I'm not a video guy, so I dunno which way the dBs go.

 

[jbarrettash]

Underexposing? I'm not a video guy, so I dunno which way the dBs go.

Gain (3db, 6db, 9db...) is an electronic amplification of the signal that adds voltage and raises the noise floor and hence lifts the entire signal. It's more like pushing than anything else.

edit: errors corrected

 

[jbarrettash]

But the story was illustrative, no?

Truth be told I got a few sentences in and developed a headache from all the horn tooting. That, and it didn't really seem to relate to much in the thread.

I apologize again then. But it does relate to the thread, I believe.

And geez, i really have to watch that then - there was that much "horn tooting"? I guess i am more insecure coming in as a newbie than I thought. I'll read it again and I promise to stick more to the point next time. I'd really like guys like you to be able to make it through my posts. (sincerely)


Edit: was reading back a few pages... a video game called "Majestic" pertains to the thread... how?
I don't mind criticism and I have already apologized, but c'mon...

 

[ratssass]

Oh, I'm not a good guy. I'm at least as nasty as these folks, I'm just a lot trickier about it.

"Honestly, your tedious stories seem to be a lot more about how awesome you are than about exposure.

What you seem to have said is, excuse my paraphrase:

On a recent project tested a bunch of cameras set to overexpose by about 3 stops, and found that they produced quite different results, one of which we felt was pretty nice and
well suited to the project, and also I am amazingly awesome."

.....can't say he didn't warn you

 

[jbarrettash]

Oh, I'm not a good guy. I'm at least as nasty as these folks, I'm just a lot trickier about it.

"Honestly, your tedious stories seem to be a lot more about how awesome you are than about exposure.

What you seem to have said is, excuse my paraphrase:

On a recent project tested a bunch of cameras set to overexpose by about 3 stops, and found that they produced quite different results, one of which we felt was pretty nice and
well suited to the project, and also I am amazingly awesome."

.....can't say he didn't warn you

He did, but I don't consider that nasty, because he's right! (though he was wrong in the paraphrase )

... but, yeah, maybe "tedious" tips the scales a little...

 

[cgipson1]

OP... did you know that by properly exposing the image, you will get better color and saturation in the background (lights ect) and make the photos look much more colorful? If you want the people to look like zombies, that is up to you... but you can do that in post also. As an example... I took one of your photos from your "Facebook Like" thread.... and upped the exposure, contrast, and saturation a little.. to try and make it look like it had been properly exposed in the first place...


Your original is on top.... my Edit on Bottom! So really.. which one do you prefer? Which one makes the people look better? Which one has more color? Which one is more "ALIVE"?
View attachment 36127

I would also STRONGLY suggest calibrating your monitor.... (and hopefully it is a decent monitor, not a laptop display)

Ummm... those aren't my photos!

You meant the OP from the link in my OP. Just to be clear.

Oops... but the point still stands

 

[dmunsie]

"The notion of under and overexposure is always a hot topic among photographers. What is underexposed and overexposed? Is there really a consensus on it?"

One thing I've quickly come to grips with about photography is, you can expose your photos to be mechanically accurate or you can expose based on your personal interpretation of the scene. I tend to try to get the in camera results exposed mechanically accurate and then tweak the exposure as needed in post processing. I love reading all the debates on the forum about exposure, saturation, noise, etc, etc. There really is no right or wrong in photography...if YOU like the end result....that's the most important thing and is what ultimately defines you as a photographer. You put 10 photographers in the same room and have them each photograph the same object, I would hope you would get 10 different results.

 

[Helen B]

Underexposing? I'm not a video guy, so I dunno which way the dBs go.

Gain (-3db,-6db,-9db...) is an electronic amplification of the signal that adds voltage and raises the noise floor and hence lifts the entire signal. It's more like pushing than anything else.

No, it's the other way round, as one would expect.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

[

Edit: was reading back a few pages... a video game called "Majestic" pertains to the thread... how?
I don't mind criticism and I have already apologized, but c'mon...

Tangents happen. Get over it.

 

[skieur]

MMM, the OP certainly has an interesting style!

 

[jbarrettash]

Underexposing? I'm not a video guy, so I dunno which way the dBs go.

Gain (-3db,-6db,-9db...) is an electronic amplification of the signal that adds voltage and raises the noise floor and hence lifts the entire signal. It's more like pushing than anything else.

No, it's the other way round, as one would expect.

Other way around, in what respect? And your tone... "as one would expect", wow... this site, i dunno...

Why so bitter, Helen? i mean, I am here to learn also, and there may be gaps in my understanding, so educate me. I'm open. But leave the bitterness at the door please. i don't deserve it and I think you know that.

And i'll post these to back up my understanding of the terms used. I am open to correction, and criticism, but not to ire and vitriol.

from this site The truth about video gain and how to use it properly - Production Apprentice



"Gain is an electronic amplification of the video signal. This means that the signal is boosted electronically, adding more voltage to the pixels on your imager (CCD or CMOS) causing them to get amplify their intensity and therefore brighten your image. This voltage increase is measured in decibels (dB) and is calculated using this equation:
Gain (in dB) = 20 x LOG(Voltage Out / Voltage In)
Now, I’ll be honest here – I’ve been doing this professionally since 1997 and I have never used this equation, so don’t freak out just yet. Allow me, or rather Bob Diaz, to put it into layman’s terms.
A +6dB Gain is equal to a 2x increase in the signal. A +12dB Gain is equal to 2 x 2 or 4x increase in the signal. A +18dB is a 2 x 2 x 2 or 8x increase in the signal. When we express Gain as dB, every +6dB increase represents another doubling the signal. Another way to think of it as F Stops.
+6dB = Adds 1 F Stop of light
+12dB = Adds 2 F Stops of light
+18dB = Adds 3 F Stops of light"

and this, from this site What Are dB, Noise Floor & Dynamic Range? : Noise & Vibration Measurement Blog

"Noise floor

Any practical measurement will be subject to some form of noise or unwanted signal. In acoustics this may be background noise or in electronics there are often things like thermal noise, radiated noise or any other interfering signals. In a data acquisition measurement system the system itself will actually add noise to the signals it is measuring. The general rule of thumb is: the more electronics in the system the more noise imposed by the system.

In data acquisition and signal processing the noise floor is a measure of the summation of all the noise sources and unwanted signals generated within the entire data acquisition and signal processing system.

The noise floor limits the smallest measurement that can be taken with certainty since any measured amplitude cannot on average be less than the noise floor.

In summary, the noise floor is the level of background noise in a signal, or the level of noise introduced by the system, below which the signal that’s being captured cannot be isolated from the noise."


So what have I gotten so backwards to merit your (2nd?) angry post?

 

[jbarrettash]

[

Edit: was reading back a few pages... a video game called "Majestic" pertains to the thread... how?
I don't mind criticism and I have already apologized, but c'mon...

Tangents happen. Get over it.

Again, wow. ummm... I was accused of not sticking to the topic. So I noted the accuser had strayed very far from the topic. And I think if you think about it, a conversation about a video game in a thread about exposure is not a tangent, but a change of topic entirely. And I would not have said anything about it (it doesn't bother me at all), but for the accusation that I could not myself stay on topic. Reasonable, no? Nothing really to get over.

There have been some very nice respectful posts here. I may have been vaunting my insecurities in a thread or two, but I apologized. Twice.

What are you all up in flames about? Why so angry? I'll gladly stop posting, if you like. I have been nothing but cordial and have been met with condescension and ego. Who has something to get over? if it's me, please elaborate. If i am incorrect, correct me. i am as open as they get with respect to that. But leave the attitude. It only brings down the quality of this site.

 

[jbarrettash]

"The notion of under and overexposure is always a hot topic among photographers. What is underexposed and overexposed? Is there really a consensus on it?"

One thing I've quickly come to grips with about photography is, you can expose your photos to be mechanically accurate or you can expose based on your personal interpretation of the scene. I tend to try to get the in camera results exposed mechanically accurate and then tweak the exposure as needed in post processing. I love reading all the debates on the forum about exposure, saturation, noise, etc, etc. There really is no right or wrong in photography...if YOU like the end result....that's the most important thing and is what ultimately defines you as a photographer. You put 10 photographers in the same room and have them each photograph the same object, I would hope you would get 10 different results.

Exactly. Well said and thank you.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

People like turtles.

 

[jbarrettash]

MMM, the OP certainly has an interesting style!

Maybe i am being paranoid, but is everyone here this snarky and sarcastic? I apologize if you were being serious, but I really doubt it...