Do Clients Always Want More?

[petrochemist115 140]

a hour shoot i take 75-150 shots and deliver 50

Yikes. I must be horribly slow I guess. Wow, that's between 1 and 2 shots per minute for the entire hour. I have to admit I'm curious as to how do you get them to cycle through 50 different poses and I'm assuming at least a couple of different backgrounds that fast?

i mainly am doing family and couple portraits outdoors... i always have it set to hi speed multi shoot and snap 3-5 shots with every button press... people tend to blink and twitch so i always shoot many of same look..
you don't need to change the background much just a turn of the head is enough for a different look. i also shoot between when they don't think I'm shooting... kids are often the most photogenic while walking from one side of the park to the other...

Surely if you take 150 shots, at 3-5 shots per button press, thats less than 50 button presses. How come you supply 50 shots with less than 50 button presses?

 

[manaheim]

I deliver ALL the photos I take, but only edit a handful fully and I put them in two separate folders. I can spend up to an hour maybe even two on one single photo. I don't have the time and their pockets aren't deep enough to pay me to edit every photo I take fully.

All photos go through basic editing, color balance, exposure, contrast.


Why do I care if the client gets all the photos? They paid me, their just going to sit on my external hard drive anyways. Might as well have someone look at them once or twice.


/rambling

IMO, this is a very bad business practice. Letting images go that are not fully enhanced does two things. (1) It dillutes your brand and enhances the expectation of greater delivery for a given dollar value; and (2) It reduces the consistancy of your portfolio. People see you out because they like a particular aspect or aspects of your work. If your work has a multitude of different looks to it, it's going to confuse clients. Likewise if Suzy comes over to visit Sally, and Sally pulls out the disc with 200 images, only 10% of which are fully enhanced, neither are going to know (or remember) which is which, and Suzy, a potential new client instead of seeing 20 great images is going see (and remember 180 so-so images.

As Over said, you need an agreement/contract; even when I'm doing a TFP for a local MM model, I have an agreement which clearly spells out what she can expect. I reinforce this at the end of the session by explaining exactly what they can expect to receive and about how long it will take. On the rare occasion when they do ask for more, I respond with a polite, "No, I'm sorry, that's all of the images that are available. All others have been deleted."

I disagree with this entirely, but I respect your point of view.

People want quantity more than quality.

If they had to choose between 500 okay photos or 20 good ones, I bet 9/10 times they choose the 100.

The number one question I get asked is how many photos I take. People don't care if you go in and touch up every single hair and clone stuff out. As long as its exposed properly and looks good, they don't care. At least from what I've noticed in the past five years of doing this. Maybe its just my 'area'.

I simply tell people, I pick out my favorite from the sets and edit them fully, and only edit the others for presentable looks (Exposure, contrast, etc) (I don't touch up skin, remove stuff, etc) but they are still presentable.


Just my opinion, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And its working for me.

I'm just going to back John up here. I think yer crazy to follow this method. As you say, if it works for you, it works for you, but I would NEEEEEVER advise this method to anyone, especially someone starting out new.

No matter what you say, customers see a few crappy images mixed in with the good ones and they're going to think less of your work.

 

[manaheim]

And to the OP... everything over said, +1.

There is also, in my experience, some effect of strength on this. I state outright that I will take some number of images, and the client will not see all of them. It's in the contract as well. It states that they will get a representative set of the highest quality selection of the images taken, or something along those lines.

Your job as a photographer is not to spin through "film" and hand it over. Your job as a photographer is to give the client the best photographic representation of the scene, object or people they are trying to capture. As a photographer you are uniquely qualified to determine what images are the best. They are not. Otherwise, why would they need to hire a photographer?

Also... a minor trick you can pull.

Delete all the crap images and then renumber them in series from 1 on. Then they get a contiguous set and it keeps them from wondering about the missing numbers. I don't do this generally, but I know people who do.

 

[paigew]

Do clients always want more?? I hope so!!

I don't have it all set up perfectly by all means, but this is how I do things right now (year 1 of business). I tell clients that after I am done processing the photos I will upload ALL the photos to an online gallery. I specify that "all" is going to be between 20-40 depending on the type of session. So right there they know they are not getting hundreds of photos. My packages include different amounts of digital files so they can by 10 for $xxx, 15 for more, and so on. Individual files can be purchased for $50 per file.

I generally do not have people asking for additional photos. I try to have a shot in the gallery from every pose/location. With a wide variety (head shots, 3/4 body, full body, standing, sitting). Plus different groupings, if they are a family then we have individual kid shots, parent shots, sibling shots, sibling + mom, sibling + dad, etc. So they are getting a ton of photos to choose from. My clients rarely ask for more.

FWIW I take a lot of photos when children are involved. A typical family session will yield 300-500 images with final of 30-60 (I over deliver)

 

[petrochemist115 140]

Jake,
As the clients were friends, how about showing the other shots to them and asking if there's any that particularly catch their eye. Get them to explain what they like about any they chose, & you could also point out to them reasons why you didn't chose the shot for your keepers.

Depending on the nature of your shoot they might see many shots they can't tell apart, or there may be shots spoilt by a background item/someone blinking...
When they now why you left it out, they might see it in a different light, or there may be a couple where the pose is one the particularly like, which is worth a little more editing.
I know I've had shots I thought were great till some points out a slight imperfection - then ever after I see the imperfection.

I wouldn't recomend this for normal paying clients unless they're going to pay extra for the privelidge.

My clients are only non paying friends & family members, but I certainly had occations where they've wanted less. It can be can I go off & play now, or why does that camera make me look fat... but theres often a request for less in one way or another!
No doubt if I charged they want that to be less too.

 

[D-B-J]

Thanks for all the replies. It was more of a slap in the face when she said that they expected more for what they paid. And I do agree that as the photographer I am the one qualified to decide which photos are best, not them.

Cheers,
Jake

P.S., this "photography business" idea is not as simple as I once thought, hahah


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[astroNikon]

Thanks for all the replies. It was more of a slap in the face when she said that they expected more for what they paid. And I do agree that as the photographer I am the one qualified to decide which photos are best, not them.

Cheers,
Jake

P.S., this "photography business" idea is not as simple as I once thought, hahah


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Yup, people that like quantity want snapshots ....

real pro photographers need to deliver quality, which are worth a thousand words (and a hundred snapshots)

at least ... from what I'm learning

 

[Steve5D]

I have a very simple rule that I always make sure a client understands: "You don't get to see the bad ones".

Period.

There are always bad ones, and I am the sole arbiter of what is good and what is bad when deciding what a client gets.

Of course, there are exceptions to every rule. The exception to this rule ends up costing the client a lot more money...

 

[astroNikon]

Thanks for all the replies. It was more of a slap in the face when she said that they expected more for what they paid. And I do agree that as the photographer I am the one qualified to decide which photos are best, not them.

Cheers,
Jake

P.S., this "photography business" idea is not as simple as I once thought, hahah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, people that like quantity want snapshots ....

real pro photographers need to deliver quality, which are worth a thousand words (and a hundred snapshots)

at least ... from what I'm learning

I just realized something.
Make sure you make sure the client fully knows what the total expectations are. If you provide leeway, you'll get asked for a lot of leeway.

 

[D-B-J]

Thanks for all the replies. It was more of a slap in the face when she said that they expected more for what they paid. And I do agree that as the photographer I am the one qualified to decide which photos are best, not them.

Cheers,
Jake

P.S., this "photography business" idea is not as simple as I once thought, hahah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, people that like quantity want snapshots ....

real pro photographers need to deliver quality, which are worth a thousand words (and a hundred snapshots)

at least ... from what I'm learning

I just realized something.
Make sure you make sure the client fully knows what the total expectations are. If you provide leeway, you'll get asked for a lot of leeway.

I will definitely be more explicit next time. I have two shoots tomorrow [emoji16]


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[W.Fovall]

you guys take things to literal... Im not sitting there counting to 3 every time.. some shots get rapid fire and some don't... I don't set a stop watch for a hour, stop doing math and go shoot.. ..

Yikes. I must be horribly slow I guess. Wow, that's between 1 and 2 shots per minute for the entire hour. I have to admit I'm curious as to how do you get them to cycle through 50 different poses and I'm assuming at least a couple of different backgrounds that fast?

i mainly am doing family and couple portraits outdoors... i always have it set to hi speed multi shoot and snap 3-5 shots with every button press... people tend to blink and twitch so i always shoot many of same look..
you don't need to change the background much just a turn of the head is enough for a different look. i also shoot between when they don't think I'm shooting... kids are often the most photogenic while walking from one side of the park to the other...

Surely if you take 150 shots, at 3-5 shots per button press, thats less than 50 button presses. How come you supply 50 shots with less than 50 button presses?

 

[bribrius]

I don't know how you guys are taking so many shots anyway. That would drive me nuts. On some things I end up with 1 for 10 keepers and get depressed over it. That means im a failure on 9. That is how i see it. usually im closer to 1 for 3 but that isn't on elaborate portraits more landscape buildings day and probably 1 to 4 night. Daytime simple shots of my kids or whatever im near 1 for 1. Get me trying to bird shoot though forget about it I suck I end up tossing almost all of them be lucky with 1 for 10. Hence I usually avoid chasing birds (not to mention I don't have the equipment for it). Not only do I despise shots I failed at, I despise sorting through a crap load of images too and sorting out the keepers. Despise even pushing the shutter on a shot I had to throw a way. Despise knowing my camera just recorded a useless shutter because I messed up. wasted shutters freak me out. I always have it in my mind I SHOULD be near 1 for 1, even if it is impossible I SHOULD be.

 

[astroNikon]

My first kids soccer game I took over 1,000 shots. They weren't very good shots either.
Now I take less than 300, and sometimes less than 200 per game. But alot more are keepers and more exciting to look at (normally between 30-50% now). And a lot less to edit and throwout.

It takes time to learn about a particular genre ... I would think weddings etc. are similar. Once you understand the "flow", lighting, posing, etc it becomes easier to get good shots.

 

[bribrius]

My first kids soccer game I took over 1,000 shots. They weren't very good shots either.
Now I take less than 300, and sometimes less than 200 per game. But alot more are keepers and more exciting to look at (normally between 30-50% now). And a lot less to edit and throwout.

It takes time to learn about a particular genre ... I would think weddings etc. are similar. Once you understand the "flow", lighting, posing, etc it becomes easier to get good shots.

Makes sense I suppose. i don't do sports generally, or weddings, or even portraits. No real birding. no genre. I do walk around photos (pick certain things) or drive somewhere and pick certain things I want a photo of. Usually night. Or photos of family or kids during days. My next one im spending more time thinking on how to do it than doing it been thinking about it for three days. So im probably on the opposite side of this spectrum. Just seems like a lot to me. Right now I take less than a 100 shots a week most weeks. This past week I MIGHT have hit under thirty. so opposite side of the spectrum for me.
suppose the ones doing this for a living have more a reason to snap a chit load of photos, where as I wouldn't. Im really just looking for certain ones I think. Last time I tried a portrait I think I took about fourty or fifty photos, so I can see how that would go up with different things. in perspective, in the last year I have less than four thousand shots. Out of them I have a little under a thousand for keepers, FOR THE YEAR. so, it looks high to me. lol.

 

[astroNikon]

just keep shooting.
when I was first doing selfies I was taking 50 shots and only ONE or 2 keepers
I did selfies because taking photos of my kids I had few keepers and I couldn't keep them there just for me to experiment.
Now I have a much better idea of the lighting setup and my setup time is drastically less, and I get keepers after a short time.
as you build your experience the keepers will go up.

read more about composition, etc and you'll learn as time goes on.