Do Clients Always Want More?

[bribrius]

just keep shooting.
when I was first doing selfies I was taking 50 shots and only ONE or 2 keepers
I did selfies because taking photos of my kids I had few keepers and I couldn't keep them there just for me to experiment.
Now I have a much better idea of the lighting setup and my setup time is drastically less, and I get keepers after a short time.
as you build your experience the keepers will go up.

read more about composition, etc and you'll learn as time goes on.

inside portraits kills me. I don't have the lighting set up. Anything outside daytime im pretty much gold. I've spent so much time playing with night photography shooting in the daylight seems like a picnic. well, long as I avoid flying birds. Night shooting im still losing too many but part of that is just from banging off ten getting the camera settings on..
I've become pretty adept at photographing my kids outside. And they don't have to sit still then I can get them on the move..
Havent tried a soccer game yet. And I have one that plays soccer. I might be back for advice on that....

 

[astroNikon]

I just did a walk around a nice church. main thing is to take shots that aren't "touristy" type shots. Anyone can take a snapshot. One has to learn to think outside of the "ooh, that looks nice" type shot.

Of course, what I think are nice shots, better photographers think are touristy lol

 

[D-B-J]

I take so many in portrait shoots because I still am learning lighting. I really don't KNOW what I'm doing yet, so I err on the side of caution and overshoot. On the other hand, I used to shoot 200+ for a sunset and keep 2 or 3. Now I'm closer to 100 and keep 4 or 5. It all comes with time.. And lots of practice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bribrius]

I just did a walk around a nice church. main thing is to take shots that aren't "touristy" type shots. Anyone can take a snapshot. One has to learn to think outside of the "ooh, that looks nice" type shot.

Of course, what I think are nice shots, better photographers think are touristy lol

I often think this way too. There being a time and place for every type of shot. Your post here may very well be worth expanding on for discussion you bring up a important concern.

I take so many in portrait shoots because I still am learning lighting. I really don't KNOW what I'm doing yet, so I err on the side of caution and overshoot. On the other hand, I used to shoot 200+ for a sunset and keep 2 or 3. Now I'm closer to 100 and keep 4 or 5. It all comes with time.. And lots of practice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

honestly dbg. I get the portrait shoot. Not so much the sunset and two hundred or one hundred problem. One thing I do, which you can do or not. Is I stopped concentrating on making a perfect photo as my sole purpose. Took less shutters and limited myself (still do) in attempts and learned to accept what I had. If I want better I need to learn to do better and do that by paying more attention to what im doing not hitting the shutter more. Reviewing my camera settings. I need to remember my settings, I need to look through my photos in post. So if I take ten tries I have ten examples to review. I take a hundred I probably wont review them all and I probably wont be happy with the photo even if I get a good one because it took me a hundred tries to get it. I really do limit my shutters and post process. Not for everyone, everyone is different. But say if I cant get a shot in ten tries I figure I don't deserve the shot yet. I wouldn't just keep going, lose track of my settings and just keep going. I would probably give myself a couple tries, stop and think. couple more tries stop and think. couple more tries or so. And that's it. what I have at that point or around that point that is where I stop.

if I take a lot of shutters, and have to do a lot of post. The photo is going in the trash, even if it ends up being a good photo. just because it took too much to get it and that isn't how I want to shoot. I don't care about having a great photo as my first priority I care about how I took that photo. I take too many I start to feel like im rolling the dice and gambling more than photography. if I get a photo in a couple tries, it doesn't require much post, im more likely to keep it even if I know I could have done better winging it with more attempts. Because that photo is on track to where I want to be. Im down to two tries on some things now in night shooting. whatever it is, it is I end up with. If I want something better, I need to stop and think, figure out what I did wrong. Maybe you could try it for one day? Give yourself a limit, five ten shots. see if you slow down and think more and understand what is going on better while you shoot instead of getting confused over a myriad of images of the same thing with a myriad of settings. The image you result with don't think "this would be better if I took a hundred shots" think "i only have five shots in this and whatever it is with each shot I knew what I was doing, thought it out, and understand the difference in the adjustments I made".

I think im this way because if I just wanted a great photo I could go get someone elses or buy one. im really trying to learn and develop good habits and for me this is how I learn. If I end up with a crappy photo, that is my penalty it is what I deserve for not getting it in a few attempts. And ill post a 1, 2 3 attempt photo crap photo on here and show everyone. i have no shame. I also know i didn't take a thousand of them to get one good one and im on track. All in how you see it.
just a suggestion

100 shot keep 4, that would be a problem for me right there. i would put down the camera after four and do some serious thinking if i wasn't even close to what i wanted.
Lot of post process is the same thing. It gives you a crutch to fix whatever you messed up when you took the shot. Not all pp but some of it. Why i limit that too as i want to take good shots from the beginning not rely on fixing my failures in post process with every photo. Put away the post process, put away all the chances, give yourself a limit just for ONE DAY and see if your thinking changes.

 

[D-B-J]

I just did a walk around a nice church. main thing is to take shots that aren't "touristy" type shots. Anyone can take a snapshot. One has to learn to think outside of the "ooh, that looks nice" type shot.

Of course, what I think are nice shots, better photographers think are touristy lol

I often think this way too. There being a time and place for every type of shot. Your post here may very well be worth expanding on for discussion you bring up a important concern.

I take so many in portrait shoots because I still am learning lighting. I really don't KNOW what I'm doing yet, so I err on the side of caution and overshoot. On the other hand, I used to shoot 200+ for a sunset and keep 2 or 3. Now I'm closer to 100 and keep 4 or 5. It all comes with time.. And lots of practice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

honestly dbg. I get the portrait shoot. Not so much the sunset and two hundred or one hundred problem. One thing I do, which you can do or not. Is I stopped concentrating on making a perfect photo as my sole purpose. Took less shutters and limited myself (still do) in attempts and learned to accept what I had. If I want better I need to learn to do better and do that by paying more attention to what im doing not hitting the shutter more. Reviewing my camera settings. I need to remember my settings, I need to look through my photos in post. So if I take ten tries I have ten examples to review. I take a hundred I probably wont review them all and I probably wont be happy with the photo even if I get a good one because it took me a hundred tries to get it. I really do limit my shutters and post process. Not for everyone, everyone is different. But say if I cant get a shot in ten tries I figure I don't deserve the shot yet. I wouldn't just keep going, lose track of my settings and just keep going. I would probably give myself a couple tries, stop and think. couple more tries stop and think. couple more tries or so. And that's it. what I have at that point or around that point that is where I stop.

if I take a lot of shutters, and have to do a lot of post. The photo is going in the trash, even if it ends up being a good photo. just because it took too much to get it and that isn't how I want to shoot. I don't care about having a great photo as my first priority I care about how I took that photo. I take too many I start to feel like im rolling the dice and gambling more than photography. if I get a photo in a couple tries, it doesn't require much post, im more likely to keep it even if I know I could have done better winging it with more attempts. Because that photo is on track to where I want to be. Im down to two tries on some things now in night shooting. whatever it is, it is I end up with. If I want something better, I need to stop and think, figure out what I did wrong. Maybe you could try it for one day? Give yourself a limit, five ten shots. see if you slow down and think more and understand what is going on better while you shoot instead of getting confused over a myriad of images of the same thing with a myriad of settings. The image you result with don't think "this would be better if I took a hundred shots" think "i only have five shots in this and whatever it is with each shot I knew what I was doing, thought it out, and understand the difference in the adjustments I made".

I think im this way because if I just wanted a great photo I could go get someone elses or buy one. im really trying to learn and develop good habits and for me this is how I learn. If I end up with a crappy photo, that is my penalty it is what I deserve for not getting it in a few attempts. And ill post a 1, 2 3 attempt photo crap photo on here and show everyone. i have no shame. I also know i didn't take a thousand of them to get one good one and im on track. All in how you see it.
just a suggestion

100 shot keep 4, that would be a problem for me right there. i would put down the camera after four and do some serious thinking if i wasn't even close to what i wanted.
Lot of post process is the same thing. It gives you a crutch to fix whatever you messed up when you took the shot. Not all pp but some of it. Why i limit that too as i want to take good shots from the beginning not rely on fixing my failures in post process with every photo. Put away the post process, put away all the chances, give yourself a limit just for ONE DAY and see if your thinking changes.

While I understand what you're saying, I disagree to an extent. Sunsets, like the one I shot the other night, change from second to second. The sun flits out and behind the clouds, the water movement changes, the intensity of the waves change, the wind changes, etc. All minute-to-minute. So it's not JUST about shooting the perfect photo once, it's about getting the settings right and then taking a photo for each change in conditions. Over the course of a near 2 hour shoot? 100 is not unreasonable.

 

[bribrius]

I just did a walk around a nice church. main thing is to take shots that aren't "touristy" type shots. Anyone can take a snapshot. One has to learn to think outside of the "ooh, that looks nice" type shot.

Of course, what I think are nice shots, better photographers think are touristy lol

I often think this way too. There being a time and place for every type of shot. Your post here may very well be worth expanding on for discussion you bring up a important concern.

I take so many in portrait shoots because I still am learning lighting. I really don't KNOW what I'm doing yet, so I err on the side of caution and overshoot. On the other hand, I used to shoot 200+ for a sunset and keep 2 or 3. Now I'm closer to 100 and keep 4 or 5. It all comes with time.. And lots of practice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

honestly dbg. I get the portrait shoot. Not so much the sunset and two hundred or one hundred problem. One thing I do, which you can do or not. Is I stopped concentrating on making a perfect photo as my sole purpose. Took less shutters and limited myself (still do) in attempts and learned to accept what I had. If I want better I need to learn to do better and do that by paying more attention to what im doing not hitting the shutter more. Reviewing my camera settings. I need to remember my settings, I need to look through my photos in post. So if I take ten tries I have ten examples to review. I take a hundred I probably wont review them all and I probably wont be happy with the photo even if I get a good one because it took me a hundred tries to get it. I really do limit my shutters and post process. Not for everyone, everyone is different. But say if I cant get a shot in ten tries I figure I don't deserve the shot yet. I wouldn't just keep going, lose track of my settings and just keep going. I would probably give myself a couple tries, stop and think. couple more tries stop and think. couple more tries or so. And that's it. what I have at that point or around that point that is where I stop.

if I take a lot of shutters, and have to do a lot of post. The photo is going in the trash, even if it ends up being a good photo. just because it took too much to get it and that isn't how I want to shoot. I don't care about having a great photo as my first priority I care about how I took that photo. I take too many I start to feel like im rolling the dice and gambling more than photography. if I get a photo in a couple tries, it doesn't require much post, im more likely to keep it even if I know I could have done better winging it with more attempts. Because that photo is on track to where I want to be. Im down to two tries on some things now in night shooting. whatever it is, it is I end up with. If I want something better, I need to stop and think, figure out what I did wrong. Maybe you could try it for one day? Give yourself a limit, five ten shots. see if you slow down and think more and understand what is going on better while you shoot instead of getting confused over a myriad of images of the same thing with a myriad of settings. The image you result with don't think "this would be better if I took a hundred shots" think "i only have five shots in this and whatever it is with each shot I knew what I was doing, thought it out, and understand the difference in the adjustments I made".

I think im this way because if I just wanted a great photo I could go get someone elses or buy one. im really trying to learn and develop good habits and for me this is how I learn. If I end up with a crappy photo, that is my penalty it is what I deserve for not getting it in a few attempts. And ill post a 1, 2 3 attempt photo crap photo on here and show everyone. i have no shame. I also know i didn't take a thousand of them to get one good one and im on track. All in how you see it.
just a suggestion

100 shot keep 4, that would be a problem for me right there. i would put down the camera after four and do some serious thinking if i wasn't even close to what i wanted.
Lot of post process is the same thing. It gives you a crutch to fix whatever you messed up when you took the shot. Not all pp but some of it. Why i limit that too as i want to take good shots from the beginning not rely on fixing my failures in post process with every photo. Put away the post process, put away all the chances, give yourself a limit just for ONE DAY and see if your thinking changes.

While I understand what you're saying, I disagree to an extent. Sunsets, like the one I shot the other night, change from second to second. The sun flits out and behind the clouds, the water movement changes, the intensity of the waves change, the wind changes, etc. All minute-to-minute. So it's not JUST about shooting the perfect photo once, it's about getting the settings right and then taking a photo for each change in conditions. Over the course of a near 2 hour shoot? 100 is not unreasonable.

i'd be looking for that 15-20 minute window peak time in both a sunset and sunrise. Like i said. i understand. Everyone is different.

 

[D-B-J]

I often think this way too. There being a time and place for every type of shot. Your post here may very well be worth expanding on for discussion you bring up a important concern.

honestly dbg. I get the portrait shoot. Not so much the sunset and two hundred or one hundred problem. One thing I do, which you can do or not. Is I stopped concentrating on making a perfect photo as my sole purpose. Took less shutters and limited myself (still do) in attempts and learned to accept what I had. If I want better I need to learn to do better and do that by paying more attention to what im doing not hitting the shutter more. Reviewing my camera settings. I need to remember my settings, I need to look through my photos in post. So if I take ten tries I have ten examples to review. I take a hundred I probably wont review them all and I probably wont be happy with the photo even if I get a good one because it took me a hundred tries to get it. I really do limit my shutters and post process. Not for everyone, everyone is different. But say if I cant get a shot in ten tries I figure I don't deserve the shot yet. I wouldn't just keep going, lose track of my settings and just keep going. I would probably give myself a couple tries, stop and think. couple more tries stop and think. couple more tries or so. And that's it. what I have at that point or around that point that is where I stop.

if I take a lot of shutters, and have to do a lot of post. The photo is going in the trash, even if it ends up being a good photo. just because it took too much to get it and that isn't how I want to shoot. I don't care about having a great photo as my first priority I care about how I took that photo. I take too many I start to feel like im rolling the dice and gambling more than photography. if I get a photo in a couple tries, it doesn't require much post, im more likely to keep it even if I know I could have done better winging it with more attempts. Because that photo is on track to where I want to be. Im down to two tries on some things now in night shooting. whatever it is, it is I end up with. If I want something better, I need to stop and think, figure out what I did wrong. Maybe you could try it for one day? Give yourself a limit, five ten shots. see if you slow down and think more and understand what is going on better while you shoot instead of getting confused over a myriad of images of the same thing with a myriad of settings. The image you result with don't think "this would be better if I took a hundred shots" think "i only have five shots in this and whatever it is with each shot I knew what I was doing, thought it out, and understand the difference in the adjustments I made".

I think im this way because if I just wanted a great photo I could go get someone elses or buy one. im really trying to learn and develop good habits and for me this is how I learn. If I end up with a crappy photo, that is my penalty it is what I deserve for not getting it in a few attempts. And ill post a 1, 2 3 attempt photo crap photo on here and show everyone. i have no shame. I also know i didn't take a thousand of them to get one good one and im on track. All in how you see it.
just a suggestion

100 shot keep 4, that would be a problem for me right there. i would put down the camera after four and do some serious thinking if i wasn't even close to what i wanted.
Lot of post process is the same thing. It gives you a crutch to fix whatever you messed up when you took the shot. Not all pp but some of it. Why i limit that too as i want to take good shots from the beginning not rely on fixing my failures in post process with every photo. Put away the post process, put away all the chances, give yourself a limit just for ONE DAY and see if your thinking changes.

While I understand what you're saying, I disagree to an extent. Sunsets, like the one I shot the other night, change from second to second. The sun flits out and behind the clouds, the water movement changes, the intensity of the waves change, the wind changes, etc. All minute-to-minute. So it's not JUST about shooting the perfect photo once, it's about getting the settings right and then taking a photo for each change in conditions. Over the course of a near 2 hour shoot? 100 is not unreasonable.

i'd be looking for that 15-20 minute window peak time in both a sunset and sunrise. Like i said. i understand. Everyone is different.

To each his own; that's what makes the world go round.

 

[TammyCampbell]

I think everyone always wants more.. You just have to gently tell and show them why some shots were not acceptable for your body of work.. And how though they might like it the photo might reflect badly on your professionalism. Outside non professional opinion here.

 

[Steve5D]

Of course, what I think are nice shots, better photographers think are touristy

Shoot what you want, and don't worry about what someone, who you think might be a better photographer, thinks about your shots...

 

[paigew]

When I first got my DSLR my father in law gave me great advice..."shoot a lot...film is cheap" . Trust me, you will become more selective with your shutter as you spend more and more hours culling images.

 

[stephenmattiola]

I as well am new to the hobby but I have had this once. What I like to do is that if I have a really well composed image I will give it to them as a copy in Black and White also cause it kind of stirs things up a bit. People do not understand the time and energy that can go into editing 20 photos.
Cheers

 

[xzyragon]

I take so many in portrait shoots because I still am learning lighting. I really don't KNOW what I'm doing yet, so I err on the side of caution and overshoot. On the other hand, I used to shoot 200+ for a sunset and keep 2 or 3. Now I'm closer to 100 and keep 4 or 5. It all comes with time.. And lots of practice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm in the same kind of boat. And when I've gotten my work critiqued, i was focusing too much on "capturing a moment" and too little on the framing, composition, pose, or lighting. Basically I think the people that will be best off are those who learned on film, to really set up, pose, compose, and light their subject, and wait for the perfect shot, instead of just getting it OK, blasting away on the shutter button, and getting half-decent shots.

To combat this, i've set up a bunch of free, non-paid shoots through my local college (UCSD) to get a lot of practice and build my portfolio, until I feel comfortable charging a lot more than just processing and transportation fees for a shoot. It helps a lot when you aren't relying on photography as your main source of income.

 

[Forkie]

My portrait sessions are generally about 3 hours long. I usually snap somewhere between 350-500 images in that time during chatting and laughing and joking to get some really natural facial expressions, so naturally in between the good ones there will be crap ones.

After a shoot, I remove any where the subject's eyes are closed (unless it looks particularly interesting!) or if I missed the focus. I leave everything else in whether I like the image or not, run an auto colour correct through Lightroom on all of them and put them in a proofing gallery. I then get the client to choose 3 that they want, then I properly run those 3 through Photoshop.

This way, the client will get only the ones they want, not the ones you want. That's it. If they want any more, they pay for more.

Make sure the number of images that you will supply and how they will be chosen is stated right at the beginning whether it be in a contract or an email.

 

[tirediron]

...Make sure the number of images that you will supply and how they will be chosen is stated right at the beginning whether it be in a contract or an email.

From a business perspective, this isn't, IMO, perhaps the best way. Addressing the second part first, unless it's in a signed contract, it's probably worthless since anyone can 'not see' something in an e-mail. They can of course equally 'not see' something in a contract, but when they've signed the document stating that they have read and agree to the terms, there's much less room for them to make trouble.

Something that drives me bat-s**t crazy, and something I see sooooo many 'Craig's List' shooters doing is offering ridiculous numbers of images (usually on a CD) as part of their session fee. First, never, ever promise a set number of images. If you must promise something, keep it at least somewhat nebulous; "A session usually produces about XX images for review" or words to that effect. Better yet, don't promise anything at all. They come in pay their $50, 100, or 200 for the session and then decide what they want at the proofing session.

 

[KmH]

[h=2]Do Clients Always Want More?[/h]Cheers!
Jake

Not if you under promise and over deliver.