"Do you have any deals..."

[imagemaker46]

Professional photographers have to do what they have to do to stay in business. People that have full time jobs but use photography as a means to collect extra income can charge what they want, and pick and choose all they want. Bottom line, some people need the money more than others.

 

[The_Traveler]

Professional photographers have to do what they have to do to stay in business. People that have full time jobs but use photography as a means to collect extra income can charge what they want, and pick and choose all they want. Bottom line, some people need the money more than others.

Man, is that the truth.
Several years ago (two) I made the decision not to try to sell anything I shoot and not to try to be a 'photographer.'
I love certain very small areas of photography - and pretty much hate the rest.
Reading the previous ~90 comments made me very happy about my decision.

 

[runnah]

Reading the previous ~90 comments made me very happy about my decision.

Dammit, almost made it under the wire.

When I started doing website for a business I realized very quickly that it sucks and I hate it. Any fun I had doing it in the past quickly evaporated as I was stuck filling out tax forms, trying to get payments, maintaining records and doing all the other bits and bobs that come with running a business. After a couple years going at it full blast I have scaled back and plan on slowing to a stop as it is not worth the extra headache.

Honestly I never want to get paid to take photos as I use it as a way to express myself creatively outside of a very not creative full time job.

 

[imagemaker46]

It's all fun as a hobby, but when it becomes a job, everything about it changes. Just like other jobs. Photography for the majority of the world consider it just a fun hobby and see the professional side as a cool way to just get into events free. When I was covering the Olympics I always got the "are you ever lucky, get to go to the Olympics for free, watch them live and get paid" I have always considered it a privilege to shoot events like that, after all who wouldn't want to spend 3 weeks working 20 hour days, while fighting other photographers for the best spots, being harassed by security everyday, riding buses with people that haven't showered in days in +40 heat, or -30 cold. I've never known it as just a hobby, so I don't know any better.

 

[nycphotography]

Professional photographers have to do what they have to do to stay in business. People that have full time jobs but use photography as a means to collect extra income can charge what they want, and pick and choose all they want. Bottom line, some people need the money more than others.

Man, is that the truth.
Several years ago (two) I made the decision not to try to sell anything I shoot and not to try to be a 'photographer.'
I love certain very small areas of photography - and pretty much hate the rest.
Reading the previous ~90 comments made me very happy about my decision.

This is why I continue write software for a living. I rather enjoy it and I'm relatively good at it... but as a JOB it sucks.

But everything sucks once it becomes a job, it's just some stuff sucks less than others. software as a job sucks a lot less than most things, particularly relative to the money involved.

So I choose to keep a career where I can make a crapload of money... so I can afford to pursue hobbies that keep me sane.

If I hated software, I might choose different. But I don't... I just hate all the corporate crap the would make photography (or pretty much anything else) as a job suck too.

 

[12sndsgood]

Maybe i'll learn to hate photography as a business. but just got past my first year last month and i'm still enjoying the hell out of it. it's hard as hell and I suck at getting business and suck at marketing myself but I went into this knowing nothing and I have learned a lot. Me at this point in time would take a 100 job as long at it was going to be something i could normally hanel without much difficulty. It's not where I want to be. but pulling in and doing some job for less then what I want helped me pay all my expenses for my first year (besides some equipment purchases I made before I opened my doors) I genearlly have a set amount that I don't feel it's worth my time. I will also give some steep discounts and work for that cheaper amount. I have gone to the client and done the "well I wouldn't normally work for this amount. but if you will push my work out to your friends and share my page and help get my name out there, then I will do it this one time for you. just don't tell anyone I gave you such a cheap price", I have also done a lot of free work and have been working with some larger online magazines for free (well they are keeping me supplied in t-shirts)just to help get my name out there and and make some connections. But I choose who I do the work for and how low I will work for. working full time I have that benefit. and the more things continue I get more picky about who I work for and take more of a stand on pricing. Trying to learn as I go. i'm sure i'm making tons of mistakes, but nobody said it would be easy.

 

[imagemaker46]

I hope you never learn to hate photography. I have done it so long and there have been times when I just felt like walking away from it, but I never hated using a camera, it's always been part of my life and it's all I know. I hate what has happened to photography and how it is now being portrayed as a job anyone can do.

 

[12sndsgood]

I'm sure there could become a time when its not as fun. at this point i'm still learning new things all the time. My biggest fear was that soon as i had to get into the business side that it would lose the fun of it. But so far although i still don't know half as much as I need to. i'm still enjoying learning that end of things.

 

[nycphotography]

I hope you never learn to hate photography. I have done it so long and there have been times when I just felt like walking away from it, but I never hated using a camera, it's always been part of my life and it's all I know. I hate what has happened to photography and how it is now being portrayed as a job anyone can do.

Like about any skilled trade in the media age. Everyone thinks that because they can see something done on youtube and it looks so easy, that anyone can do it. And to a point that's true. Most people CAN do most things. They just can't do them WELL.

True story... (and one of my favorites, too)...

I had GF once who was in management and accepted to Harvard for her MBA... one day she was going on and on about how her company was going to save all this money by outsourcing IT to India. Nevermind that I do what she's outsourcing, and I do it for one of the smarter names on Wall Street, and they're pretty sharp about such things, yet they pay me very well.

After a while of listening to her babble on I interrupted her... "I got it! I got it! We're going to be RICH!. Sit down and listen! Here's what we're going to do... we'll outsource all the MBA's to India! Hey we can get bad management for half the price!"

We never actually broke up... she just never called me ever again. lol.

But the moral of the story is simple, an illustration of human nature in it's purest form: "Everyone is a commodity, Except for me"

You have to learn to think of yourself as a commodity... then figure out how to add enough value to make yourself expensive... then figure out how to make other people recognize the value and pay for it.

 

[amolitor]

"The application of photography to portraiture has reformed and almost revolutionized that art throughout the world; yet ninety-nine out of every hundred photographic portraits are the most abominable things ever produced by any art, and the originals of them may often truly say, with the old Scotch lady who say her own portrait for the first time, "It's a humbling sicht; it's indeed a sair sicht." This is not the fault of the art itself, but of those who, on the strength of being able to dirty a piece of glass with chemicals, are pleased to dub themselves artists"

H.P. Robinson. "Pictorial Effect in Photography" fifth edition, 1893.

Same as it ever was.

 

[Steve5D]

$50-$100 is crazy!

Do people not factor in everything goes along with running a business? Factor in gas, taxes, equipment wear, batteries, and your personal time. You'd be lucky to take home a buck in profit.

Allow me to refer you to post #62.

Gas? Maybe.

Taxes? Sure.

Batteries? Huh? I have batteries that I've been using for the better part of ten years. Exactly what amount should I factor into my rate for those?

I've always been perplexed a bit by "equipment wear". How do you quantify that? How much do I add to my fee for "equipment wear"?

If you don't want to take the low dollar gigs, don't. Like you, I won't shoot for free. But I also know better than to pass up an easy C-note because I don't think it's worth my time. I'll gladly take that hundred bucks if you don't want it...

 

[Steve5D]

Chasing $100 deals all day won't pay the bills. Chasing $5,000+ deals could.

Sure it will. If you're not lazy, and know what you're doing, $100.00 deals come in awfully handy.

What your comment fails to take into consideration is that fact that a $5,000.00 is far more involved. The $5,000.00 job requires a Helluva' lot more work, time and energy than a $100.00 job. If it doesn't, then the $100.00 jobs are taking way too long, and far too much energy is being expended.

I've shot enough $100.00 jobs to know that they don't take a great deal of commitment. Anyone who says they do either has never actually done any, or is doing them all wrong.

Again, I applaud those who think they're too good to shoot $100.00 jobs. I'll happily shoot them. When you're in a position where those $100.00 jobs are what puts food on the table, you'll be on them like a fat kid on cake...

 

[manicmike]

As a stay at home dad, those $100 paydays would be great for me. All that is extra income I wouldn't be getting otherwise.

 

[Overread]

A few things to consider:

Costs to do business - Might help to break this down into groups:

1) The bottom line in hard cash that it costs you to open the door and do nothing. Your studio rent, building rent, lighting, water bills etc.... Ergo this is the cost (often worked out per hour or half hour that you're open) that it costs you to do nothing for the company.

2) The cost it costs you to perform a specific task or type of photography. This cost will vary quite a bit depending on what you offer and also on what the client wants. However like the previous cost, this is the hard cost to yourself to perform a service.

3) Everything else - your earnings, profit, own living expenses etc.. Ergo this is the remainder of the income that you calculate that you need to meet in order to live the life that you choose and to put food on the table. Note most might break this into 2 points - a lower point which is bread on the table - and an upper point which is bread on the table with jam to go on top (ergo the perks of life).


It's important to know these values and to split them up as best you can. That way you know, as a person, what your minimum amount is for a service when a client calls you up (add 1 and 2 together). You then know that you MUST get that amount at the very least to break even on the deal. You also know that if you get paid any less then you are gifting your services. Take this example

1) Running costs - $10
2) Service costs - $20

IF a client offers to pay you $20 then you are covering your running costs, but your service is costing you $10 to perform for that client. It's a break point where you could have done the work or not and it won't affect your earnings at all.

IF a client offers you $30 then you've covered your service costs, and you've covered your running costs - so if you have the time its likely worth it just to cover your running costs.

IF a client offers you $10 then you're losing out. The client is covering your running cost, but to do so you've got to pay out $20.



I suspect a fair few of the "I won't get out of bed for $100" people might well be running very close to those situations where the running and service costs for them to put on the service for the client might be leaving them with little to cover after. Now of course each person and company will differ - some will have higher and some will have lower running and service costs; also different clients requesting different services will also cost different amounts.

In the end the key is knowing and worrying about your own numbers, let the other service providers cater to those segments of the market that you can't or won't service and you stick to yours.

 

[GerryDavid]

If you can't cover your costs and leave enough profit at $50 an hour, you need to rethink your business plan. So for $100 she gets 2 hours of your time. That can be 1 hour shooting and 1 hour post. Or it can be 2 hours shooting and then hand her a DVD.

The entire time, you can be talking about all the things you COULD do for her. Book. Prints. Galleries. Styling and hair and makeup. With examples laying around that she can pick up and hold and look at.

Most people will end up spending more than their budget, once they see what they can get and they decide they want it.

You take the sessions knowing that you have the opportunity to sell much more. And that "selling more" is the real trick in business. Every business. ;-)

What % of your customers only go for the dvd? and what % buy anything extra? I figure most clients that want a cd only wnat it to save money.