"Do you have any deals..."

[jowensphoto]

Did you just close the deal and buy the last company in America with a fat juicy pension plan? Do you want to celebrate?

Consider our Cigars, Limos, and Strippers photo package! Party like a rock star all night long, and take home a huge full color photo book with ALL the action if you know what I mean! Today ONLY, $85,000, down from our regular $95,000!

OMG, too freaking funny. I realize this is humor, but it's sad to also realize that this would probably sell in my area. I'm right under the WV eastern panhandle - like 20 girlie-bars (as my uncle calls them) within a 10 mile radius.

 

[Steve5D]

I like to say that I won't back out of the driveway for less than $250.00, but there are some realities, too.

First, I don't have a driveway anymore. The US interstate system is my current "driveway".

If someone said "Hey, Steve, can you come over and shoot a portrait for fifty bucks?", I'd probably do it.

Why?

Well, first, it's fifty bucks, which is better than not "fifty bucks".

Second, I don't happen to be one of these people who believe I need to charge for the wear and tear on my gear, or my auto insurance, the rubber lost on the soles of my shoes, or any of the other nickel and dime things many like to consider. The gas is already in the tank and, if I'm not coming to you to shoot a portrait, I'm probably going somewhere, to shoot something, that no one is paying me for. Time editing? I have to be honest, I can't remember the last time I spent more than five or ten minutes editing a portrait. Also, odds are someone who asks me to do that is a friend, and is gonna' have a cold one waiting for me when I get there.

I no longer have a regular "day job". Photography is it. I've been fortunate in that I've landed a lucrative gig for the summer, but after that, I'll need to figure it all out. Frankly, I've never been in the habit of turning down work, and I really don't want to start making it a habit now. While I certainly won't shoot for free, I also don't intend to turn my nose up at an easy gig for what many would consider too little.

If a client has money he wants to part with, well, I want to be there when he does...

 

[jowensphoto]

Steve - All I can really say is I'm jealous. If I didn't have a family depending on my day-job income, I'd have quit years ago and done the very same thing. Good idea for retirement I also don't want to set a precedent - in a small town, especially, word spreads quickly though it's not always a good thing. I want my business established as a luxury service/product and I don't want to open myself up to something that's negotiated THIS much (small discounts and an occassional freebie go far, but this specific instance the quote I gave and the budget the potential client responded with were no where in the same ballpark).

I'm going to rethink my marketing strategy.

 

[imagemaker46]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with what is being said, but as the times change and there become more dead spots I really don't have any problem putting an easy $100 in my pocket, and will every time. I also know photographers that are easily pulling in well over 100k a year, and some closer to 200k, and they are still taking the $100 shoots, and the reason is the same as it always has been, "better in my pocket, than someone else" I still have fee ranges that I use depending on client, and also understand the client that I am working with, and know their budgets. If a long time client calls me an asks if I can drop by and do 10 quick head shots for $100, I'm not insulted by it, I know that this client will be using my services down the road. Potential clients and potential business can't be simply passed over anymore, regardless of how good the photographer thinks they are.

I know photographers that still make the claim of "I wouldn't get out of bed for less than $500" it's more talk than truth.

What I don't do is give anything to non-profit groups, I get this all the time. Many of them just want a free 8x10, if they are inducting someone into a hall of fame, but they won't even pay $15 for an e-mail copy. I find these types of groups insulting.

If anyone is relying on photography part time to help supplement a family income to pay the bills and is treating photography as a business, paying the taxes etc, I don't have a problem with this, and I'm sure most would take any shoots they can get.

 

[imagemaker46]

I like to say that I won't back out of the driveway for less than $250.00, but there are some realities, too.

First, I don't have a driveway anymore. The US interstate system is my current "driveway".

If someone said "Hey, Steve, can you come over and shoot a portrait for fifty bucks?", I'd probably do it.

Why?

Well, first, it's fifty bucks, which is better than not "fifty bucks".

Second, I don't happen to be one of these people who believe I need to charge for the wear and tear on my gear, or my auto insurance, the rubber lost on the soles of my shoes, or any of the other nickel and dime things many like to consider. The gas is already in the tank and, if I'm not coming to you to shoot a portrait, I'm probably going somewhere, to shoot something, that no one is paying me for. Time editing? I have to be honest, I can't remember the last time I spent more than five or ten minutes editing a portrait. Also, odds are someone who asks me to do that is a friend, and is gonna' have a cold one waiting for me when I get there.

I no longer have a regular "day job". Photography is it. I've been fortunate in that I've landed a lucrative gig for the summer, but after that, I'll need to figure it all out. Frankly, I've never been in the habit of turning down work, and I really don't want to start making it a habit now. While I certainly won't shoot for free, I also don't intend to turn my nose up at an easy gig for what many would consider too little.

If a client has money he wants to part with, well, I want to be there when he does...

What you wrote is the honest reality of the business, I couldn't have said it any better.

 

[runnah]

$50-$100 is crazy!

Do people not factor in everything goes along with running a business? Factor in gas, taxes, equipment wear, batteries, and your personal time. You'd be lucky to take home a buck in profit.

I am all for helping out and doing work well below a profit margin but I am certainly not going to be giving work away for free or at a loss..

That being said I do charity projects all the times.

 

[jowensphoto]

Those are good points - and like I said in my OP, I could use the cash. Though this isn't going to be something I do regularly, I've offered the "mini" to 3 families for quick, simple shoots and an online gallery that they can use to order prints (and I'll make some money off of those).

 

[runnah]

Those are good points - and like I said in my OP, I could use the cash. Though this isn't going to be something I do regularly, I've offered the "mini" to 3 families for quick, simple shoots and an online gallery that they can use to order prints (and I'll make some money off of those).

Right and I guess it's a symptom of going all digital. Back when I shot film there was a hard cost associated with doing business. Nowadays there isn't the cost associated with developing, printing and film, so people think they can play fast and loose until they run out of money.

 

[jowensphoto]

I've been experimenting with film and have included it as an upgrade, believe it or not. Some people like the nostalgia

CRAP! That reminds me... I still have some film I need to take to the shop.

 

[runnah]

CRAP! That reminds me... I still have some film I need to take to the shop.

I hope you are charging a premium or there goes your profit margin.

 

[cgipson1]

It's interesting; I booked a session last week with a girl from Fairfax. Told her the price and got, "Awesome! Do I need to pay a retainer or anything like that?" WOW, dream client, right (she also got married recently so perhaps she remembers how all that works). The lady yesterday who is from my area (ugh, I hope I don't get googled as that would just be awkward) said, "Woah, I can't spend that much. What can you do for under $100?" Yes, I just reread the message and saw the "under" part.

So perhaps it's just sticker shock or lack of industry knowledge or the expectation of getting a huge discount because she's known me for so long. I don't know.

Maybe it is the $50 an hour (or multi-hour) Amateur PRO's, and the low price/ low quality expectations they have been setting? There are more of them.. then there are good photographers out there... (and since the good photographers aren't subsidized by their spouses, they have to charge realistic prices!)

 

[amolitor]

It's pretty common to reason thus:

I've got a business up and running, I've got costs but they're pretty much sunk costs at this point. Why wouldn't I take a $100 transaction? It's bigger than $0.

There's nothing wrong with that, up to a point. But let's assume that your business model cannot operate entirely on $100 transations -- you'd go under. This means that in a very real sense your $500 or $5000 deals are actually subsidizing the $100 deal. Yeah, your gross revenue has gone up by $100, but your margins have dropped. You can get away with this to a degree, but there are limits.

Now, if you literally cannot find anything else to do with that time, sure. It's like selling the last few rooms on a cruise ship -- the ship is leaving harbor, the costs are sunk. If you can get $50, take it. The full-fare people are subsidizing the CRAP out of those rooms, but Norwegian Cruise Lines doesn't care, they have $50.

If you CAN find something else to do with that time, though, you probably should do that. Can you do some marketing? Can you follow up with a couple of clients from last year to see if you can get a repeat? Arguably if you can't spend 2 hours of time doing something that's worth more than $100 gross revenue to your business, you're doing something wrong.

Now, that's all a very business-y point of view. If you take a more casual approach, sure, why not? If it's all just friends and cold beers, great. There's no problem with $0 or $100 there. But it ain't *business* it's just being social and helping out, with or without a pro-forma fee. I got no problem with being social, helping out, and especially disposing of cold ones.

 

[cgipson1]

Nah, I think it should be the opposite. If someone has to be blatantly disrespectful of your occupation over and over again, obviously there is some sort of jealousy or some rare allergy to higher education. Who knows. Maybe my occupation will be the next on the chopping block. Stick around Jdubs.

Seriously... What the hell did I miss? Obviously something, haha. Who is making fun of whose occupation?????

Different page, E! Start reading on Page 2... and work your way down (keeping in mind that some posts were modified or deleted by mods... you will see the edit notices)

 

[jowensphoto]

Charlie, read the disclaimer in my OP I know that's a part of it, and even touched on it a few minutes ago - but I refuse to blame those people for my lack of success. There's a way for me to do it, just not how I'm currently marketing. I'm going to PM you in a bit.

 

[cgipson1]

When I had my studio, I occasionally even shot for "free" (and that was listed in the contract.. No charge for the shoot)... knowing I would make it up in the prints I would sell... but that required contracts, and a lot of print sales (sports teams for instance). Sometimes that model works better than charging for shooting time.