EchoingWhisper
TPF Noob!
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,553
- Reaction score
- 54
- Location
- Malaysia
- Can others edit my Photos
- Photos OK to edit
The light is great but you should have found a better place to stand on/a nicer angle.
Thanks Michael, Unfortunately I'm taking this shot from inside the house and it is pretty much the only angle I can get on it (I think), I'm shooting from an upstairs window and have to avoid grapevines to get the shot.The light is great but you should have found a better place to stand on/a nicer angle.
On your second post the bird image is striking.
#2 isn't so great as far as composition and framing
#3 is nice would like to see it processed with a bit more punch on the color
#4 you snuck in the moon!
Well ... I ran in auto... and the wrong auto at times (sigh) but I got a few that I liked, (with things I didn't like about them) Now I think it is time for a hot chocolate!
1. Love the bird except he seems a little out of focus and flat, background wasn't ideal since there was snow in the trees and it is too bright and busy, competes with the bird.
I'm always shooting sideways into the light taking these so thinking I may have to relocate the feeder.
![]()
2. This one I almost like, I really want to like it but I really want more contrast and the shadow to be darker... but I like it ... almost.
![]()
3. This one came closest to the image I was trying to get.... but wow there is a LOT going on and there is depth missing somehow.
![]()
4. This one I like but something bothers me about the treeline, I achieved what I was trying to do, have the reflection in the pond to be in focus but I lost focus in the trees and I miss it.
![]()
Awesome Bazooka, you can tell how much you enjoy photography by how you talk about the picturesWell ... I ran in auto... and the wrong auto at times (sigh) but I got a few that I liked, (with things I didn't like about them) Now I think it is time for a hot chocolate!
1. Love the bird except he seems a little out of focus and flat, background wasn't ideal since there was snow in the trees and it is too bright and busy, competes with the bird.
I'm always shooting sideways into the light taking these so thinking I may have to relocate the feeder.
First, overall, I already see big improvement in all the images, great job. With just one round of C&C look at how much you've improved.
Thanks!
#1 You captured a really neat moment here. Let's just take a moment to examine the frame. The bird, the obvious subject, is just about to break the surly bonds of gravity and spring into the air with the very next flap of it's wings.You have a slightly bowed mid-tone board resting across the bottom of the frame. The bird feeder is now resting on top of this board. The scene is side-lit, but there is plenty of ambient fill light as well so you retain plenty of shadow detail. The only other thing in the plane of focus are small specks of snow. The background has a full spectrum of tones, from bright highlights to dark shadows, and everything in between. The color pallette is mostly green, brown, and a bit of yellow.
Composition. While the subject is centered, I feel the image is well balanced (or unbalanced, depending on how you look at it). The whole image is firmly anchored by the wooden bored stretching across the bottom of the frame. This gives stability. The large dark feeder is positioned to the left of the frame, initially throwing off the weight of the image. However, it is counter-balanced by the dark trunks of the trees in the background. Not completely, but I think that because the bird is appears to be precariously, perhaps impossibly balanced on the edge of the feeder, having a little imbalance contributes to the image in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with an imbalance as long as it suits the feel of the image. Also, the bird has plenty of noseroom to fly "into" when it does take flight. This is good.
I still feel the bird is a bit small in the frame and being dwarfed by the feeder. To maintain this composition, the only thing I can think of doing would be to be get a slightly smaller feeder, but that may be going overboard for this kind of shot. However, it is something keep in mind.
hmmm ok I see your point, these Chicadees are abundant ... and small obv lol. There are Blue Jays, Woodpeckers and Cardinals that are quite frequent visitors also but they aren't nearly as bold as the Chicadees are. I'll cut my teeth on the Chicadees and be ready for the rare shots at the bigger birds when they come along. It will be neat to see how much it changes the composition
The snow falling is an AWSOME aspect of this image. I wish there was more, or that the flakes were slightly larger. Again, this isn't something you can control, but something to keep in mind in the future.
Although the background is busy as you noticed, it is more tonally balanced with the focal plane because they are both receiving the same light whereas before, the bird was in total shade. You're shooting wide-open so the only thing you could do to blur it more would be to use a longer focal length and back up a bit.
:thumbup:
My biggest problem with image is that the light is coming in from the left, shooting up the birds butt. This is kind of distracting. Again, you can only control so much, so you have to make compromises. I doubt any photograph is "perfect".
Ah yes, I think this is where my impression that he was out of focus came from ... his butt is pretty bright and I agree it is distracting. The only real way to get away from this is to move the feeder since the light I can catch there is early morning and early evening and obv it is always going to show up on their left side all things considered.... mind you.... I wonder about shooting as late or early as possible and have the deck lights on....
Secondly, the bow in the board at the bottom is quite distracting. This can be fixed in RAW > Lens Correction. The jpg can also be fixed with lens correction.
Oh neat! I shall give that a goIs there any way to avoid that in the first place?
2. This one I almost like, I really want to like it but I really want more contrast and the shadow to be darker... but I like it ... almost.
Honestly, this one isn't working for me at all. Technically, it's a bit underexposed. That's why it has that muddy washed-out look. This is a common issue with snow because the camera sees all that white and tries to make it a neutral gray, underexposing it. You need to add exposure compensation... probably about one stop, maybe more. The problem is, the sky is very close to clipping at the top, so you won't be able to add too much unless you get into local edits. Nothing wrong with that, sometimes its absolutely necessary.
Artistically, I don't know what you see in this scene, or more importantly, I don't know what you want ME to see in this scene. After some studying, I recognize that those lines on the left are the ribs of a greenhouse. I still do not know what the pole is. It kind of looks like a ship's mast, but that wouldn't make sense to me. How is that related to the greenhouse? It HAS to be related to something in the scene because it's such a strong aspect of the image. But I'm not making any connections whatsoever. I'm just confused by this image. There is major mis-communication here.
It didn't come out how I was seeing it and I struggled with getting a good composition but there is a hint of what I saw there, I probably shouldn't have added it since I was so on the fence about it. The shadows were more pronounced and everything had a very weird quality to it, almost like it wasn't real and I can still see it in there but fell short capturing it... I'm probably seeing more there because I have what I "really saw" as a reference lol
Oh and the "mast thing" is an old broken down windmill that we haven't restored yet (just bought the place)![]()
3. This one came closest to the image I was trying to get.... but wow there is a LOT going on and there is depth missing somehow.
I like your prognosis of this image. You discovered the beauty of great light, color, and reflections on still water. But there IS a lot going on. The beauty of the reflection is soooo strong, you effectively communicated to me what you wanted me to see, but unfortuately, as you said, there is so much going on that the "subject" so to speak, is being deteriorated.
You need to find a way to simplify the scene. What can you effectively leave out? How can you do that? It's difficult to suggest anything as I wasn't there to walk around and look at the scene. But perhaps you could get closer to the water and elminate the clutter in the foreground.
I suppose you were trying make the cattails an important element in the scene, but as it is, they're getting completely lost and are adding to the "noise" that is disrupting the crystal-clear communication you are going for. Maybe you CAN find a way to use them, but for starters, they need to be much larger in the frame OR more abundant... they're somewhat contrasting against the snow, but they're also getting lost in the dark reflections and the other brush. If you're going to use them, they need to really pop.
Actually I very much dislike the cattails I tried everything other than pulling them out to make them go away and get the wide composition I was looking for, there are many other versions of this photo that I took but posted this one hoping there was something I missed that might have helped. You can see the others on my photobucket if you would like, I'm working on uploading the whole day's worth (minus the really icky ones lol) .. might take a while to get them all there though lol Pictures by ThePixelRabbit - Photobucket
4. This one I like but something bothers me about the treeline, I achieved what I was trying to do, have the reflection in the pond to be in focus but I lost focus in the trees and I miss it.
I would like to see the exposure level of #3 applied to this one. Perhaps you were trying to get the moon more properly exposed, but the moon is very very bright compared to a night-time scene. That's why we can see it during the day. So you'll have to do some exposure combining to keep detail in it while properly exposing the scene.
one word... autowas just working on composition and that is the settings the camera gave me when I framed the shot...but it is a good suggestion and I'm very curious about what it will look like so I'm going to put that in my notebook of pics I want to take
Speaking of the moon, even though it's so small in the scene, it is effective at simplifying the scene, as is the portrait aspect. All of those strong verticals act like pointers, making it even more natural for my eyes to travel from the moon, to the reflections, and back and forth, and back and forth. This travelling helps to make a photo more interesting to look at. It keeps people looking longer instead of just glancing over.
:thumbup:
I also like that you used a small area of plain snow to frame the bottom of the image. That gives a nice clean base that doesn't allow the strong verticals to pull my eye out. In some images, having white on the edge of a frame would pull your image in that direction, but it's very subtle here and creates a nice natural frame.
What I don't like about the shot are the treeless branches straying in from the left. Usually you want to see those branches anchored to something besides the side of the frame. Otherwise, they create a tree in our mind just outside of the frame which is NOT where you want the mind or the eyes to be. Work to keep it all contained. Either include the tree, or lose the branches.
Great tip, ty
All in all, these are MUCH better than your first 3. I cannot wait to see your next set. If I miss your future posts, please feel free to message me if you are interested in further comments.
Ok Bazooka, you are way neatI'm going to go in and use a different colour and respond in the quote...
Awesome Bazooka, you can tell how much you enjoy photography by how you talk about the picturesWell ... I ran in auto... and the wrong auto at times (sigh) but I got a few that I liked, (with things I didn't like about them) Now I think it is time for a hot chocolate!
1. Love the bird except he seems a little out of focus and flat, background wasn't ideal since there was snow in the trees and it is too bright and busy, competes with the bird.
I'm always shooting sideways into the light taking these so thinking I may have to relocate the feeder.
First, overall, I already see big improvement in all the images, great job. With just one round of C&C look at how much you've improved.
Thanks!
#1 You captured a really neat moment here. Let's just take a moment to examine the frame. The bird, the obvious subject, is just about to break the surly bonds of gravity and spring into the air with the very next flap of it's wings.You have a slightly bowed mid-tone board resting across the bottom of the frame. The bird feeder is now resting on top of this board. The scene is side-lit, but there is plenty of ambient fill light as well so you retain plenty of shadow detail. The only other thing in the plane of focus are small specks of snow. The background has a full spectrum of tones, from bright highlights to dark shadows, and everything in between. The color pallette is mostly green, brown, and a bit of yellow.
Composition. While the subject is centered, I feel the image is well balanced (or unbalanced, depending on how you look at it). The whole image is firmly anchored by the wooden bored stretching across the bottom of the frame. This gives stability. The large dark feeder is positioned to the left of the frame, initially throwing off the weight of the image. However, it is counter-balanced by the dark trunks of the trees in the background. Not completely, but I think that because the bird is appears to be precariously, perhaps impossibly balanced on the edge of the feeder, having a little imbalance contributes to the image in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with an imbalance as long as it suits the feel of the image. Also, the bird has plenty of noseroom to fly "into" when it does take flight. This is good.
I still feel the bird is a bit small in the frame and being dwarfed by the feeder. To maintain this composition, the only thing I can think of doing would be to be get a slightly smaller feeder, but that may be going overboard for this kind of shot. However, it is something keep in mind.
hmmm ok I see your point, these Chicadees are abundant ... and small obv lol. There are Blue Jays, Woodpeckers and Cardinals that are quite frequent visitors also but they aren't nearly as bold as the Chicadees are. I'll cut my teeth on the Chicadees and be ready for the rare shots at the bigger birds when they come along. It will be neat to see how much it changes the composition
That's certainly an option too, wait for larger birds. I do think it may be a bit out of focus, or it may also be motion blur. It's difficult to tell. For these shots where you have little time to react but you know where the focal plane will be more or less, go ahead and pre-focus on that area and switch to MF on the lens so the focus doesn't change. Also make sure you don't move closer or further from the subject or the focal plane will go with it, also resulting in OOF. You can also stop down your aperture a bit to get more room for error focus-wise (something auto mode does NOT know you need).
The snow falling is an AWSOME aspect of this image. I wish there was more, or that the flakes were slightly larger. Again, this isn't something you can control, but something to keep in mind in the future.
Although the background is busy as you noticed, it is more tonally balanced with the focal plane because they are both receiving the same light whereas before, the bird was in total shade. You're shooting wide-open so the only thing you could do to blur it more would be to use a longer focal length and back up a bit.
:thumbup:
My biggest problem with image is that the light is coming in from the left, shooting up the birds butt. This is kind of distracting. Again, you can only control so much, so you have to make compromises. I doubt any photograph is "perfect".
Ah yes, I think this is where my impression that he was out of focus came from ... his butt is pretty bright and I agree it is distracting. The only real way to get away from this is to move the feeder since the light I can catch there is early morning and early evening and obv it is always going to show up on their left side all things considered.... mind you.... I wonder about shooting as late or early as possible and have the deck lights on....
I wouldn't use the deck lights. The fewer light sources you have, the fewer light colors you have to work around. Dont' add tungsten to sunrise and shade... that would look pretty awful. Generally, try to eliminiate different colored lightsources. If you cannot, you'll need to take extra steps to work around it (converting to B&W is one obvious option, sometimes the only one).
Secondly, the bow in the board at the bottom is quite distracting. This can be fixed in RAW > Lens Correction. The jpg can also be fixed with lens correction.
Oh neat! I shall give that a goIs there any way to avoid that in the first place?
Yes, avoid shooting at the extreme ranges of your lens. For example, let's say you have a 17-55 kit lens. To best avoid barrel or pincushion distortion, avoid shooting wide open at 17mm and full zoomed at 55. Typically, the closer you can get toward the middle of the range, the less distortion will be a factor. However, each lens is different. You may want to do some experimenting with yours on a piece of paper with a grid on it (or a brick wall or something with horizontal and vertical lines at repeating patterns that you can shoot SQUARELY). You also may be able to find test results on some photography sites if you google for your lens model number. They will often tell you where the lens is the weakest and what to avoid.
Honestly, this one isn't working for me at all. Technically, it's a bit underexposed. That's why it has that muddy washed-out look. This is a common issue with snow because the camera sees all that white and tries to make it a neutral gray, underexposing it. You need to add exposure compensation... probably about one stop, maybe more. The problem is, the sky is very close to clipping at the top, so you won't be able to add too much unless you get into local edits. Nothing wrong with that, sometimes its absolutely necessary.
Artistically, I don't know what you see in this scene, or more importantly, I don't know what you want ME to see in this scene. After some studying, I recognize that those lines on the left are the ribs of a greenhouse. I still do not know what the pole is. It kind of looks like a ship's mast, but that wouldn't make sense to me. How is that related to the greenhouse? It HAS to be related to something in the scene because it's such a strong aspect of the image. But I'm not making any connections whatsoever. I'm just confused by this image. There is major mis-communication here.
It didn't come out how I was seeing it and I struggled with getting a good composition but there is a hint of what I saw there, I probably shouldn't have added it since I was so on the fence about it. The shadows were more pronounced and everything had a very weird quality to it, almost like it wasn't real and I can still see it in there but fell short capturing it... I'm probably seeing more there because I have what I "really saw" as a reference lol
Oh and the "mast thing" is an old broken down windmill that we haven't restored yet (just bought the place)![]()
I like your prognosis of this image. You discovered the beauty of great light, color, and reflections on still water. But there IS a lot going on. The beauty of the reflection is soooo strong, you effectively communicated to me what you wanted me to see, but unfortuately, as you said, there is so much going on that the "subject" so to speak, is being deteriorated.
You need to find a way to simplify the scene. What can you effectively leave out? How can you do that? It's difficult to suggest anything as I wasn't there to walk around and look at the scene. But perhaps you could get closer to the water and elminate the clutter in the foreground.
I suppose you were trying make the cattails an important element in the scene, but as it is, they're getting completely lost and are adding to the "noise" that is disrupting the crystal-clear communication you are going for. Maybe you CAN find a way to use them, but for starters, they need to be much larger in the frame OR more abundant... they're somewhat contrasting against the snow, but they're also getting lost in the dark reflections and the other brush. If you're going to use them, they need to really pop.
Actually I very much dislike the cattails I tried everything other than pulling them out to make them go away and get the wide composition I was looking for, there are many other versions of this photo that I took but posted this one hoping there was something I missed that might have helped. You can see the others on my photobucket if you would like, I'm working on uploading the whole day's worth (minus the really icky ones lol) .. might take a while to get them all there though lol Pictures by ThePixelRabbit - Photobucket
4. This one I like but something bothers me about the treeline, I achieved what I was trying to do, have the reflection in the pond to be in focus but I lost focus in the trees and I miss it.
I would like to see the exposure level of #3 applied to this one. Perhaps you were trying to get the moon more properly exposed, but the moon is very very bright compared to a night-time scene. That's why we can see it during the day. So you'll have to do some exposure combining to keep detail in it while properly exposing the scene.
one word... autowas just working on composition and that is the settings the camera gave me when I framed the shot...but it is a good suggestion and I'm very curious about what it will look like so I'm going to put that in my notebook of pics I want to take
It's not a bad idea at all to keep a notebook of ideas for photographs. I can't say that I keep one myself, but often I'll have an idea that I'll think about for weeks, working out technical details (often lighting), before I get around to creating the shot. These shots sometimes don't turn out as I expect, but sometimes they hit the nail on the head.
Speaking of the moon, even though it's so small in the scene, it is effective at simplifying the scene, as is the portrait aspect. All of those strong verticals act like pointers, making it even more natural for my eyes to travel from the moon, to the reflections, and back and forth, and back and forth. This travelling helps to make a photo more interesting to look at. It keeps people looking longer instead of just glancing over.
:thumbup:
I also like that you used a small area of plain snow to frame the bottom of the image. That gives a nice clean base that doesn't allow the strong verticals to pull my eye out. In some images, having white on the edge of a frame would pull your image in that direction, but it's very subtle here and creates a nice natural frame.
What I don't like about the shot are the treeless branches straying in from the left. Usually you want to see those branches anchored to something besides the side of the frame. Otherwise, they create a tree in our mind just outside of the frame which is NOT where you want the mind or the eyes to be. Work to keep it all contained. Either include the tree, or lose the branches.
Great tip, ty
All in all, these are MUCH better than your first 3. I cannot wait to see your next set. If I miss your future posts, please feel free to message me if you are interested in further comments.Thanks again for taking the time and I look forward to your input again!
Thanks cooksnjI have learned a ton already, Bazooka rocks imho. Keeping honest here most of the pics I took were on auto yesterday, I was just working on composition and focus so I can't take any credit for anything other than that. I can't wait to really delve into full manual to see what I can make the camera do
Note: I oopsied and uploaded too high of a res images first so created an album for yesterday and this morning, you can find all of the images uploaded here now:
http://s1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc470/ThePixelRabbit/Snow Day/