First Business Meeting

[etnad0]

...Mostly because you don't understand business. McDonald's isn't focused on making a better burger. They focus on promoting mediocre burgers and making them look good. You seem to think that focusing on making the best the burger (photo) is the most important thing and it's not. ...

Really? Then why are you in this business Mr. Burns? I feel sorry for people like you who think that providing a mediocre product is acceptable as long as you get your money.

Tirediron, I think his product is more related to customer service then photography from how I see it. The photography part maybe impartial to the experience of it, but its what brings the customer's in the door, and they come out with pictures feeling like a million bucks.

Op, I see what this is. It's like a night club/dance club where their product is sex and alcohol. It's not dancing. The dancing is the incentive, but the motive is something else. My question is if you're making them feel like a thousand bucks, why charge so little. Why not charge them a thousand bucks worth? I'm assuming your going for volume?

Edit: Missed your comment about target market. Ignore my last question there.

Yep, you got it 100%. People don't want to create a high end feel in a low income neighborhood. They usually put up a crappy business with crappy customer service in these types of neighborhoods. Figured I'd try something different.

 

[etnad0]

Really? Then why are you in this business Mr. Burns? I feel sorry for people like you who think that providing a mediocre product is acceptable as long as you get your money.

I feel sorry for people like you that ASSUME you know how a product is going to turn out before the first picture is ever taken.

Well, your portfolio speaks for itself IMO IMHO TBQH.

Where Professional Models Meet Model Photographers - ModelMayhem

Yep, it's all point and shoot portfolio with S5100 while I was really learning the basics. If you bothered to look, those pics are 8 months old and my first attempt at a photo shoot with actual people. The fact is, I have 10 shoots lined up between now and February so I can work on getting better. However, as I said before your comprehension skills need work since I'm not in charge of setting up the shots for the business. What don't you get about that? LOL

Maybe you should share with us how you run your business... When you have one to tell us about, let me know. LOL

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Not that this is the kind of photography I would want to do but you sure seem to have your ducks in a row.

Best of luck to you.

 

[rexbobcat]

Really? Then why are you in this business Mr. Burns? I feel sorry for people like you who think that providing a mediocre product is acceptable as long as you get your money.

Tirediron, I think his product is more related to customer service then photography from how I see it. The photography part maybe impartial to the experience of it, but its what brings the customer's in the door, and they come out with pictures feeling like a million bucks.Op, I see what this is. It's like a night club/dance club where their product is sex and alcohol. It's not dancing. The dancing is the incentive, but the motive is something else. My question is if you're making them feel like a thousand bucks, why charge so little. Why not charge them a thousand bucks worth? I'm assuming your going for volume?Edit: Missed your comment about target market. Ignore my last question there.

Yep, you got it 100%. People don't want to create a high end feel in a low income neighborhood. They usually put up a crappy business with crappy customer service in these types of neighborhoods. Figured I'd try something different.

So you're a huckster?

 

[etnad0]

So you're a huckster?

I'm guessing you don't actually own a business either or if you do, you're not making much money LOL.

 

[rexbobcat]

So you're a huckster?

I'm guessing you don't actually own a business either or if you do, you're not making much money LOL.

Ah. So you are a huckster.It's all cool.Sometimes if you don't have the talent, schmoozing works.

Also, P.T. Barnum.

"There's a sucker born every minute."

 

[tirediron]

...Mostly because you don't understand business. McDonald's isn't focused on making a better burger. They focus on promoting mediocre burgers and making them look good. You seem to think that focusing on making the best the burger (photo) is the most important thing and it's not. ...

Really? Then why are you in this business Mr. Burns? I feel sorry for people like you who think that providing a mediocre product is acceptable as long as you get your money.

Tirediron, I think his product is more related to customer service then photography from how I see it. The photography part maybe impartial to the experience of it, but its what brings the customer's in the door, and they come out with pictures feeling like a million bucks.

how can there be good customer service with a poor product? The excuse that it is acceptable for it to be of a lesser quality because it's not a wedding or portrait is just that. An excuse.

 

[etnad0]

So you're a huckster?

I'm guessing you don't actually own a business either or if you do, you're not making much money LOL.

Ah. So you are a huckster.It's all cool.Sometimes if you don't have the talent, schmoozing works.

Also, P.T. Barnum.

"There's a sucker born every minute."

Sounds like the words of a jealous loser to me. As I suspected. You have no talent and no money and no business sense. Sucks to be you. LOL.

Let me also add that you should probably learn how to add a TITLE tag to your website before trying to give me business advice because having "Untitled Page" showing is very unprofessional and the first sign that you don't even know something as simple as putting your own name on your website. The fact that you are too lazy to categorize your blog post or add tags or even a title tells me all I need to know about your business sense. Good luck with that. LOL

 

[etnad0]

Really? Then why are you in this business Mr. Burns? I feel sorry for people like you who think that providing a mediocre product is acceptable as long as you get your money.

Tirediron, I think his product is more related to customer service then photography from how I see it. The photography part maybe impartial to the experience of it, but its what brings the customer's in the door, and they come out with pictures feeling like a million bucks.

how can there be good customer service with a poor product? The excuse that it is acceptable for it to be of a lesser quality because it's not a wedding or portrait is just that. An excuse.

Prove it. Show me a single shot from the person in charge of setting up the pictures that is of poor quality. I'm guessing you're slow since you obviously don't read or comprehend much since I've said it multiple times. I'm running the business part of the business. The photographer is running the photography part of the business. I love your ignorance and jealousy. Makes me :lmao:. I understand why people like you sit on forums and contribute nothing but negativity. You hate your life and the fact that you can't do what others do, so you sit behind a computer screen wishing you could run a successful business. I can AFFORD to try the business and fail.

Please keep the hate coming because it's soooo encouraging. I know for a fact that you wish you could start a business to have a product to sell, but the fact is that if your "quality" work was worth anything at all, you could get enough money to start your own business and not worry about what I'm doing with my money and time. I'm loving the fact that you hate it so much. You're really going to hate it when people love their pictures and start telling other people to come get pictures from us.

In fact, let's put your money where your mouth is. February 1, 2012 - March 1, 2012, lets see who makes the most money from photography. Let's see who gets the most POSITIVE feedback from customers. The loser has to make a video destroying their camera. The fact about business is that the customer decides what the customer wants and likes, not you or me. So put up or shut up.

 

[tirediron]

Prove it.

You've proved it yourself with the line "They focus on promoting mediocre burgers and making them look good. You seem to think that focusing on making the best the burger (photo) is the most important thing and it's not." If the photographs aren't the most important thing, then what is?

Show me a single shot from the person in charge of setting up the pictures that is of poor quality.

I've not seen any; can you post some or provide links?

I'm guessing you're slow...

You'd guess wrong.

I love your ignorance and jealousy.

As best I can determine, right now you have nothing for me to be jealous of...

I understand why people like you sit on forums and contribute nothing but negativity.

Perhaps you could read a few more of my contributions; I rather think that the vast majority of them are positive ones.

You hate your life and the fact that you can't do what others do,

Not at all.

I can AFFORD to try the business and fail.

I'm happy for you.

Please keep the hate coming because it's soooo encouraging. I know for a fact that you wish you could start a business to have a product to sell, but the fact is that if your "quality" work was worth anything at all, you could get enough money to start your own business and not worry about what I'm doing with my money and time. I'm loving the fact that you hate it so much. You're really going to hate it when people love their pictures and start telling other people to come get pictures from us.

Wow... you really must have a guilty conscience. I don't hate you; it might make you feel better if I did, I suppose, but really, I don't.

In fact, let's put your money where your mouth is. February 1, 2012 - March 1, 2012, lets see who makes the most money from photography.

I'll concede that now; I don't plan on doing much, if any paid work in the spring.

I guess at the end of the day it boils down to this: I take pride in my work, and believe that any job, regardless of what it is, or how small it is, should always be done to the best of one's ability. Starting a business with the philosophy that mediocrity is acceptable tells me that you have little work ethic and less pride in your work. With respect to that bet you offered, how about if we make that for 1 January 2013 - 1 February 2013. That will give you lots of time to get your business up and running.

 

[etnad0]

Prove it.

You've proved it yourself with the line "They focus on promoting mediocre burgers and making them look good. You seem to think that focusing on making the best the burger (photo) is the most important thing and it's not." If the photographs aren't the most important thing, then what is?

Business is the most important thing in Business.

I've not seen any; can you post some or provide links?

Exactly my point, but you keep talking about the quality of product but you just admitted you haven't seen any. That makes you a liar.

As best I can determine, right now you have nothing for me to be jealous of...

If you don't have anything positive to contribute, why speak on it? You already admitted that you don't know much about business, you haven't seen any work from the photographer, which means you're just posting negativity for the sake of being a hater.

Wow... you really must have a guilty conscience. I don't hate you; it might make you feel better if I did, I suppose, but really, I don't.

Lol... guilty conscience about what? I haven't done anything to feel guilty about. Like the rest of your posts in this thread, I'll assume you're making it up just for the sake of being negative.

I guess at the end of the day it boils down to this: I take pride in my work, and believe that any job, regardless of what it is, or how small it is, should always be done to the best of one's ability. Starting a business with the philosophy that mediocrity is acceptable tells me that you have little work ethic and less pride in your work. With respect to that bet you offered, how about if we make that for 1 January 2013 - 1 February 2013. That will give you lots of time to get your business up and running.

I never said "mediocrity is acceptable". You said that. I said, the main focus of business should be business. Skill comes 2nd. I never once said we are going to just put out crappy pictures to make money. You assumed that because you can't seem to comprehend that you can be the best photographer in the world, but if you don't have business sense it will fail. If I really planned to rely on my personal skill level you might have a point, depending on how much progress I make between now and February, but that's not the case. I found a professional photographer, gave up 40% of my ownership share, just so he could bring quality and knowledge to the table. I'm smart enough to know that I need someone that knows more than me about photography. He thought photography was the most important part of business and that it would carry him through, but it didn't work out that way. I basically gave him a way to continue doing what he loves without worry about the business part of it. If it was about mediocrity, I'd keep my 80% and hire some high school kids to take pics for minimum wage. I love photography and I'm actually learning and attempting to get better at it, which is why I'm going to learn from him while we conduct business.

I'm going to give you a perfect example. T-Pain is one of the best hip hop producers around. He made hits for quite a few people and they made millions. He barely made thousands because he didn't know crap about business. I felt bad for the guy because he is a really good producer and kind hearted person that just wanted to do music, but he got screwed over because he thought making good music meant making lots of money. Same thing happened to Kanye at first. They were paying him $10k for music he could have sold for $100k or more, but he didn't know any better. Then they gave him a record deal so they could get his stuff for even cheaper. When he found out, he said "f*** them" and shot out a press release announcing his album. The label had no choice but to show up for it, but they admit they never planned to release him as an artist. Kanye got paid because he gained some business sense and put the music 2nd. When it was 1st he was getting screwed. Hopefully you understand my point now.

As far as your changing the bet... whenever. Doesn't matter to me. By the end of the first year, I'll have several thousand people on our mailing list. An email blast will probably generate a five figure weekend, but if that's what you want to do, so be it.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Ok, can you guys just kiss and make up... ?

I think you both have something to offer here, in very different ways, but so what?



I mean, shoot, I could write you a book about what is wrong with both of your positions but let's be honest here, what are we taught in the US from the earliest age? Make money! Make money at any cost! Fook the darn corpses you leave along the way.


etnad0's way may not be mine but neither is yours tirediron. etnad0 is not leaving corpses behind him, like some other companies we all know, Canada seems to stay out of the limelight because they don't get involved. Fine. Great. But that ain't quite the same as being out there saving the world and the planet.

Anyway, as I told etnad0 in a PM I basically do the same he does but at a much higher level, so I don't have to work as hard as he will. You want a different world, teach your kids right. Teach your neighbor's kids right. Teach other people's kids right.

And maybe we need to teach ourselves right... to start with.

 

[BlackSheep]

The flea markets/swap meets out here cost to get in. There is a previous post on it but I have to dig it up. As far as "uniforms" it's both actually. I think we are going to buy the uniforms, but they aren't uniforms in the traditional sense. We are hiring 2 female models. The attire has to be sexy, but not so sexy that families feel uncomfortable bringing their kids. We found some good examples that we are going to go with.


We figure it's a good cross between sexy and professional. The reason we are buying is because if we leave it up to the girls, sooner or later someone will cross the borderline with sexy clothes. All of the models, receipts, order forms, etc. will be bilingual since 80% of our customer base speaks Spanish.

Drunk men and sexy women are a great combination. The place we are at sells beer and lots of it.

The compensation also includes and hourly + bonus goals for the day.

(I've snipped parts out of your original quote to keep things simple)

It's impressive that you're putting so much work into the planning stage. I don't understand what type of photos you will be doing, though - you mention drunk men, sexy-but-professional sales girls, and families in a flea market. I'm just curious, can you show an example of what type of photos you intend to do?

 

[BlairWright]

That McDonalds analogy is perhaps the worst analogy I've ever heard.

Have fun with your dollar menu photos.

Mostly because you don't understand business. McDonald's isn't focused on making a better burger. They focus on promoting mediocre burgers and making them look good. You seem to think that focusing on making the best the burger (photo) is the most important thing and it's not. Look at the movie industry, look at fast food, look at clothing lines, look at Microsoft. Lot's of people make better stuff than most of the huge companies, but they think like you, which is why they aren't as big.

Man, I hate to say this but you have a horrible attitude. You are way off base here, this isn't burgers it's art and you will be based 100% on the quality of your work; if your lucky you'll get a couple "well he's a great guy but his work is not too great".

Customer service is VERY important but unless you can back it up with results you will fail.

Sorry but that's the truth buddy.

-B

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Uh, he doesn't seem to be targeting the high end market. It's quick portraiture, not art. It sounds like cookie cutter set up, a la Sears, or Wal-Mart, so all that needs to be done is pose, and press the shutter. He seems to be catering to a lower income bracket, giving them a fun, expensive feeling experience, and they get to go home with a few images to frame and hang on their wall. He seems to be targeting a market that wouldn't think of dropping $500 for a portrait session, ever. That and the casual customer that happens to be there, and are wrapped up in having a good time, and decide to get a portrait just for fun.

I don't see a problem with that.

The only two questions I have...since you will be serving beverages, do you fall under health codes, and, rules may have changed, but if you are playing music, do you have to pay ASCAP (?) licensing fees? At a bar I worked at, you could only play commercial radio, or the Jukebox. The Jukebox company covers the ASCAP fees. We couldn't play our own CD's, and they could be fined if they were caught doing so.