HELP! Bad Photo Shoot/Gig: How to deal with the aftermath

[Steve5D]

As for poor people being deserving, it's a whole different debate altogether and I'm not going down that road. All I'm saying is that I won't charge for poor people who are in desperate need of help.

That's one Helluva' debate technique: "I'm going to introduce an idea into the conversation but, if anyone asks me about it, I'll refuse to talk about it".

How silly...

 

[AaronLLockhart]

What's "real" isn't what someone is able to pay, it's what they're willing to pay.

Can AH get AH A-Men?!?!?! (In my best Southern Baptist Preacher voice.)

 

[amolitor]

As for poor people being deserving, it's a whole different debate altogether and I'm not going down that road. All I'm saying is that I won't charge for poor people who are in desperate need of help.

That's one Helluva' debate technique: "I'm going to introduce an idea into the conversation but, if anyone asks me about it, I'll refuse to talk about it".

How silly...

He didn't "introduce it into debate". It was a side remark, clearly separated from the thrust of what he was saying.

You, however, appear to be trying to turn this into a political debate.

 

[nonamexx]

About value to market: I think you have to set a benchmark early and live up to it.

Okay.

How would someone do that, especially if they have no real experience?

Simple. You don't work in isolation. This is where professional colleagues can help. Especially somebody senior to you who can mentor and help out.

By the way, I do have a colleague who is my senior by experience (though junior in age), and we do work together. I am not yet at the stage where I can branch out on my own.

I'm really confused. Does everybody work in a vaccuum?? If you have no idea what to charge for what service when starting out, you need to interface with experienced members of your profession.

 

[ronlane]

About value to market: I think you have to set a benchmark early and live up to it.

Okay.

How would someone do that, especially if they have no real experience?

When I started shooting concerts, should I have set my "benchmark" to match that of a Neal Preston or a Henry Diltz? I guess I could've, although I had absolutely no point of reference for it. I could've set my benchmark much lower, but the reality is that I had no point of reference for that, either.

You can value yourself and your work, and that's perfectly fine. But that value may not be "real". What's "real" isn't what someone is able to pay, it's what they're willing to pay.

If I have, say, a 1959 Gibson Les Paul, I can say that its value is $200,000.00, and there would be more than a few people who would agree with that statement. But if I don't get someone to actually give me money for it, it's just another guitar...

If you have a '59 LP, I'm sure someone will be willing to pay you $200K for it.

I agree with what you are saying Steve, it's what someone is willing to pay

 

[AaronLLockhart]

About value to market: I think you have to set a benchmark early and live up to it.

Okay.

How would someone do that, especially if they have no real experience?

Simple. You don't work in isolation. This is where professional colleagues can help. Especially somebody senior to you who can mentor and help out.

By the way, I do have a colleague who is my senior by experience (though junior in age), and we do work together. I am not yet at the stage where I can branch out on my own.

That method only works in an apprenticeship environment such as you're proposing. Then, you aren't charging fair market for your skills and experiences. You're charging them for your mentor and partner's skillset and experience. These are two separate conversations to be had.

 

[amolitor]

What's weird here is that the loudest voices arguing with one another.. all seem to be in agreement on the essentials.

I honestly cannot tell what the hell the argument is even ABOUT at this point. It seems to be entirely parsing isolated phrases and having pretend fights about what they mean.

 

[nonamexx]

It doesn't even have to be apprenticeship. You can still take the advise of your fellow professionals without necessarily being their apprentice.

 

[nonamexx]

What's weird here is that the loudest voices arguing with one another.. all seem to be in agreement on the essentials.

I honestly cannot tell what the hell the argument is even ABOUT at this point. It seems to be entirely parsing isolated phrases and having pretend fights about what they mean.

LOL, I lost track of this debate long ago.

 

[jake337]

So, one thing I never really gave thought to was a contract - especially for family and friends. 99.99% of the time, my friends and family are just so grateful for anything, so I never really thought of writing a contract. This is the one time that I wish I had something, but how do you get around doing it without it being awkward? I think I would feel weird asking for them to sign something.

None of my photoshoots are paid, at least by money. I always tell them that we're both doing each other a favor because they get their prints and I get some practice. I usually get paid in food - yum! Yesterday, I actually did an engagement shoot and was paid with lunch and dinner.

This is the first time that I've been pressed into a corner.

So instead of handing over the hard drive, I should ask her to sit down with me this weekend and we both can go through the hard drive together?

Thanks again everyone!!

If his person is actually your friend they would not be pressing you into a corner.


They should be happy they saved hundreds , if not thousands, of dollars.....

 

[AaronLLockhart]

It doesn't even have to be apprenticeship. You can still take the advise of your fellow professionals without necessarily being their apprentice.

Example:

There is this car mechanic that is "The best mechanic shop in town." This car mechanic has now partnered in business with you, a newcomer to the automotive scene, and you are now working together in this shop. The consumer still isn't paying for your knowledge, your skills, or your experiences, they are paying for his. With that, his reputation extends out to you, that your work will meet and exceed his standards. If you were to branch off without him, and do your own thing, I highly doubt you could get away with charging the same thing that he charges, and maintain your clientele. You simply don't have the reputation to precede you.

 

[Steve5D]

As for poor people being deserving, it's a whole different debate altogether and I'm not going down that road. All I'm saying is that I won't charge for poor people who are in desperate need of help.

That's one Helluva' debate technique: "I'm going to introduce an idea into the conversation but, if anyone asks me about it, I'll refuse to talk about it".

How silly...

He didn't "introduce it into debate". It was a side remark, clearly separated from the thrust of what he was saying.

You, however, appear to be trying to turn this into a political debate.

He used it to make a point; one which is open to challenge.

That's how the internet works.

Enfuriatin', innit?

 

[Steve5D]

I'm really confused...

You've made that rather clear...

 

[nonamexx]

It doesn't even have to be apprenticeship. You can still take the advise of your fellow professionals without necessarily being their apprentice.

Example:

There is this car mechanic that is "The best mechanic shop in town." This car mechanic has now partnered in business with you, a newcomer to the automotive scene, and you are now working together in this shop. The consumer still isn't paying for your knowledge, your skills, or your experiences, they are paying for his. With that, his reputation extends out to you, that your work will meet and exceed his standards. If you were to branch off without him, and do your own thing, I highly doubt you could get away with charging the same thing that he charges, and maintain your clientele. You simply don't have the reputation to precede you.

No, I meant you gain his experience and also ask how much he used to charge when he was inexperienced and starting out. Then do the math for the inflation or present market. By asking more people, you get a fair idea of what fees are the norm when you start out in a profession. Normally it's flexible and as you gain experience, you keep re-evaluating.

 

[Steve5D]

If you have a '59 LP, I'm sure someone will be willing to pay you $200K for it.

I watched a dealer sell one at the Arlington Guitar Show a few years back for $220,000.00.

These days, though, they're not fetching near that much. People still ask that much, but they're not selling...