How Far Do You Place Your Flash Source from the Subject During Outdoor Shoots?

[PeK77]

Hi gang!
I'm continuing to have trouble with raccoon eyes during outdoor shoots and I'm wondering how far from your subject do you typically place your light source?

My workflow has been to set my camera to 1/200th (as its the max I can run my off camera flash with), dial in a nice background setting and then dial in the flash. I've been using an umbrella off axis and like the results of everything except the eyes! I'm guessing I'm too far away from the subject and the distance + 45 degree angle are causing the raccoon eyes.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[KmH]

How Far Do You Place Your Flash Source from the Subject During Outdoor Shoots?

Most of the time just outside the image frame.

I usually want my light modifier as close to my subject as I can get it.

 

[PeK77]

How Far Do You Place Your Flash Source from the Subject During Outdoor Shoots?

Most of the time just outside the image frame.

I usually want my light modifier as close to my subject as I can get it.

Thanks, KMH. This is definitely what I'm doing wrong then. I'll report back.

 

[tirediron]

What Keith said; I often crop out little edges of softox, umbrella etc from the edge of the frame becuase they're that close (Often less that 3').

 

[Big Mike]

It's hard to diagnose exactly what the issue is, without knowing more and/or seeing for ourselves....but the most likely scenario is that you just don't have enough flash power to fill the shadows.

Firstly, what aperture and ISO are you shooting at? Since you are limited by the max. sync speed, it's likely that you are having to use a low ISO and relatively small aperture. Both of those things will require the flash to use more power.

Then you are using an umbrella, which reflects some light, absorbs a little bit and diffuses (scatters) the rest. The result is that only a tiny fraction of what the flash is putting out, actually goes in the direction of your subject's face.

So with all of that going on, you simply don't have enough power/light from the flash to fill in the shadows on your subject's face.

Now, what exactly are you trying to do with your flash? The two usual options are creating a 'key' light or using it for 'fill' light. If you are using your flash as a key (main) light, then it has to be stronger than the ambient light. You would see shadows on your subject's face that are caused from the light coming from the flash. This is the scenario where using an umbrella is nice because it will help to soften the edges of those shadows. But if the ambient light is fairly bright, then you need A LOT of light from the flash...and/or it has to be really close to the subject. So as KmH mentioned, you would want to have your light/umbrella as close as possible to your subject. I'll also add that I prefer a soft box in this situation, because it keeps more of the light on the subject (less spillage).

The other option is simply to use the flash to fill in the shadows caused by the ambient light (raccoon eyes). In this case, it doesn't matter if the light is soft, so you can loose the umbrella. Also, it doesn't matter if the light is off camera, so you can loose the stand and just put the flash on camera. Note that flashes are designed with a reflector dish and zooming head so that they can constrain all of the light into a smaller angle. Usually the zoom of the flash will match the focal length (zoom) of the lens, to give you even coverage. But in this case you can zoom the flash head into a tighter beam, because you really only need it to light up your subject (maybe even just their face).

So using the flash directly pointed at your subject, without an umbrella and maybe even zoomed in....these will all help the flash put more light onto the subject...which means that your flash may actually have enough power, even at a low ISO and small aperture. It may even allow the flash to be used at a lower power level, which means you will have a faster recycle time and get more shots out of the batteries before you have to change/charge them.

So to recap, you really should decide whether you are using the flash for a key (main) light or just a fill. If it's fill, then all you need to do is put it on the camera and point it directly at your subjects. If you are using it for a key light, then get as close as possible and maybe switch from an umbrella to a softbox (something like this).

And lastly, sometimes you have to realize the limits of your gear. Using a flash as a key light, outdoors in the daytime, takes A LOT of flash power....often more than the average flash unit has. That is why many photographers use studio type lights and run them off of a battery pack, or even a generator.

One last thing. There is an option that might help you in this situation...and that is high speed sync. Canon calls it HSS and Nikon calls it 'Auto FP'. In this mode, the flash pulses the light, rather than firing one large burst, this allows you to use any shutter speed, which allows you to control the ambient light and thereby use a larger aperture which makes it easier for the flash. But the trade off is that the flash range/power is very limited in this HSS mode....so it's really only a good option when you can get your light very close to your subject. And to use this feature with the flash off-camera, you have to have flash triggers (or cables) that are TTL compatible.

 

[PeK77]

It's hard to diagnose exactly what the issue is, without knowing more and/or seeing for ourselves....but the most likely scenario is that you just don't have enough flash power to fill the shadows.

Firstly, what aperture and ISO are you shooting at? Since you are limited by the max. sync speed, it's likely that you are having to use a low ISO and relatively small aperture. Both of those things will require the flash to use more power.

Then you are using an umbrella, which reflects some light, absorbs a little bit and diffuses (scatters) the rest. The result is that only a tiny fraction of what the flash is putting out, actually goes in the direction of your subject's face.

So with all of that going on, you simply don't have enough power/light from the flash to fill in the shadows on your subject's face.

Now, what exactly are you trying to do with your flash? The two usual options are creating a 'key' light or using it for 'fill' light. If you are using your flash as a key (main) light, then it has to be stronger than the ambient light. You would see shadows on your subject's face that are caused from the light coming from the flash. This is the scenario where using an umbrella is nice because it will help to soften the edges of those shadows. But if the ambient light is fairly bright, then you need A LOT of light from the flash...and/or it has to be really close to the subject. So as KmH mentioned, you would want to have your light/umbrella as close as possible to your subject. I'll also add that I prefer a soft box in this situation, because it keeps more of the light on the subject (less spillage).

The other option is simply to use the flash to fill in the shadows caused by the ambient light (raccoon eyes). In this case, it doesn't matter if the light is soft, so you can loose the umbrella. Also, it doesn't matter if the light is off camera, so you can loose the stand and just put the flash on camera. Note that flashes are designed with a reflector dish and zooming head so that they can constrain all of the light into a smaller angle. Usually the zoom of the flash will match the focal length (zoom) of the lens, to give you even coverage. But in this case you can zoom the flash head into a tighter beam, because you really only need it to light up your subject (maybe even just their face).

So using the flash directly pointed at your subject, without an umbrella and maybe even zoomed in....these will all help the flash put more light onto the subject...which means that your flash may actually have enough power, even at a low ISO and small aperture. It may even allow the flash to be used at a lower power level, which means you will have a faster recycle time and get more shots out of the batteries before you have to change/charge them.

So to recap, you really should decide whether you are using the flash for a key (main) light or just a fill. If it's fill, then all you need to do is put it on the camera and point it directly at your subjects. If you are using it for a key light, then get as close as possible and maybe switch from an umbrella to a softbox (something like this).

And lastly, sometimes you have to realize the limits of your gear. Using a flash as a key light, outdoors in the daytime, takes A LOT of flash power....often more than the average flash unit has. That is why many photographers use studio type lights and run them off of a battery pack, or even a generator.

One last thing. There is an option that might help you in this situation...and that is high speed sync. Canon calls it HSS and Nikon calls it 'Auto FP'. In this mode, the flash pulses the light, rather than firing one large burst, this allows you to use any shutter speed, which allows you to control the ambient light and thereby use a larger aperture which makes it easier for the flash. But the trade off is that the flash range/power is very limited in this HSS mode....so it's really only a good option when you can get your light very close to your subject. And to use this feature with the flash off-camera, you have to have flash triggers (or cables) that are TTL compatible.

Thank you. I've been using it with the subject in the shade and exposing the background correctly to product a clear image of the subject. I'm going to try both the direct method of using the flash and also try moving the umbrella with flash closer. Thanks for the advice!!! A lot of great stuff in there.

I've been shooting with ISO at 100 and I still have to have the lens relatively closed to be able to product an image that isn't blown out. I was hoping to use the 50mm 1.8 with the lens open but it's all good. I'm just having fun shooting.

 

[robbins.photo]

My light source is usually placed roughly 93 million miles from my subject.

 

[PeK77]

My light source is usually placed roughly 93 million miles from my subject.

I've worked that way as well. Equally as fun and rewarding. Much lighter pack as well.

 

[robbins.photo]

My light source is usually placed roughly 93 million miles from my subject.

I've worked that way as well. Equally as fun and rewarding. Much lighter pack as well.

Well downside is you lose catchlights and a lot of other really great lighting effects. Upside? Never a need for spare batteries.. lol

 

[petrochemist115 140]

My light source is usually placed roughly 93 million miles from my subject.

In some of my shots my light sources are at least 10,000 times further still, but usually that's about right. :mrgreen:

When I do use a flash-subject distance can vary from 2 foot (for macro - where it's usually well to the side of the camera) to over 60 foot (painting with light - multiple flashes & long exposures).
Flash REALLY struggles at the longer distances, remember each time the flash subject distance doubles the light spreads over four times the area giving 1/4 power (Inverse square rule).