How much does health cost? rant I guess

mmaria · Sep 23, 2014

pgriz said:
Maria, pain perception is a brain thing. Just like hiccups come from mixed signals in the vagus nerve, sometimes pain perception is due to cross-signals. I have a cousin who had excruciating pains in her knees and back since she was about 12 or so (she's 42 now). Has been to many doctors, all kinds of specialists, and no-one could figure out why the pain originated (there were no signs of organic disease, no metabolic irregularities, nothing out of the ordinary for a young woman. These bouts of pain were intermittent, and she never was able to identify any set of circumstances or food that triggered an attack. However, the pains went away after her first pregnancy. After a while they returned, and then went away again during and after her second pregnancy. She's on her seventh child now. And she/we still don't know the cause/source of the pains she was feeling before. The best "explanation" she got was the hypothesis by one of the neurosurgeons she visited, that her pain nervous system somehow was getting signals from an unrelated set of nerves, and perceiving those as pain. For now, she seems to be pain-free, but I'm not sure I'd recommend serial baby-making as a cure.

Paul, all I'm hearing from your post is : Be pregnant all the time or use marijuana

On a serious note, everything is in our brains and my brain is messing with me. The trouble is how to reprogram/fix it?

Or... do I just need to accept that it will be like that till I'm 50 or so? I struggle with accepting that and with the fact that I always need to find another painkiller... What will I use next month, because this one doesn't help anymore? A few days on it, double dosage of what is recommended for severe pain and I still had episodes when I cried, couldn't move and couldn't speak.

And... who gave a "disagree" to YOU!?

CameraClicker · Sep 23, 2014

mmaria said:
I quoted both of you because you're talking about diet.
The thing is... I eat healthy. I don't smoke, don't drink alcohol ( and I'm sorry for the alcohol part but my stomach can't stand it anymore, not a sip) I haven't been eating any of processed food for years now. I'll rarely drink soda or buy a juice. Almost everything that comes to my kitchen is organic. I can't remember when was the last time I ate fast food or similar. I don't consume a significant amount of sugar...

The thing is, even when I did eat meat/processed food, drink alcohol, smoke, and such the pain was still the same. I haven't noticed any difference.

It's not about eating "healthy", it's about eating ingredients your body likes and avoiding those that cause problems/pain. Unfortunately you can't use anyone else as a reference, you have to work it out. It may not be diet. It may be dissolved chemicals in the water, or something you are breathing, or chemicals in soap, cosmetics, or something you touch.

When troubleshooting complex systems, I like to get the simple/easy tests out of the way first, and move into more complex tests by breaking the system down into components, then try to test large blocks, half or thirds, to figure out where to look. Once the large block is identified, breaking that into smaller blocks and repeating tests until the component is identified. With diet and environment, there are thousands of things you are coming into contact with, so it will be a big job to find the cause.

mmaria · Sep 23, 2014

CameraClicker said:
It's not about eating "healthy", it's about eating ingredients your body likes and avoiding those that cause problems/pain. Unfortunately you can't use anyone else as a reference, you have to work it out. It may not be diet. It may be dissolved chemicals in the water, or something you are breathing, or chemicals in soap, cosmetics, or something you touch.
When troubleshooting complex systems, I like to get the simple/easy tests out of the way first, and move into more complex tests by breaking the system down into components, then try to test large blocks, half or thirds, to figure out where to look. Once the large block is identified, breaking that into smaller blocks and repeating tests until the component is identified. With diet and environment, there are thousands of things you are coming into contact with, so it will be a big job to find the cause.

yeah... I agree... but to be completely honest my previous answer was just avoiding because I know that this is a tough job. I tried it twice seriously because of my skin and gave up after a while...

So to explain, I also have a sensitive skin and I it took me years to figure out what ingredients in cremes, lotions, shampoos and such is bothering me. Results were just ...funny, I guess because I really don't have any other proper word. Among else Panthenol bothers me. I've never heard that someone is bothered by Panthenol..

and Thank you for your posts!

limr · Sep 23, 2014

Paul brings up something that I was actually thinking about. I know you've seen a lot of doctors - were they all gynecologists? Did you ever see other kinds of doctors? Specifically I was thinking about an endocrinologist or a neurologist. The pain is localized and limited to when your hormone balance changes - perhaps it's an issue with really drastic imbalance, or maybe something about that imbalance is interfering with the pain receptors, making nerve endings fire without real cause.

The hormone shift also causes a drop in magnesium levels, which is important for pain management. Have any of the doctors ever suggested taking a magnesium supplement? You'd take one starting the day before the pain is supposed to start (you said you can predict the dates, right?) and continue for 3-4 days. Not too much, though, because it can cause stomach problems. They say the daily dose for women is 320mg. I'd probably start lower and work up if you need to.

Your diet probably contains enough magnesium, but it might be worth looking into to see if there are certain vegetables to eat more of, or at least eat more of right before your period instead of taking a supplement.

I don't want to keep throwing the word "diet" at you because I know you eat healthy, but the pain might be hinting at certain deficiencies. I just read this in one of the articles I found: "One 2009 study looked at the vitamin D levels of people with chronic pain who were using opioid painkillers. Those who had a deficiency of vitamin D needed almost twice as high a dose of medication to control their pain.

Edwards now checks vitamin D levels in many of her patients with chronic pain. If they're lower than 50 to 70 nanograms/milliliter, she might recommend a supplement for natural pain relief."
That came from here: Natural Pain Relief: Chronic Pain Supplements

The idea is not just about eating healthy, but finding the foods and balance that can reduce inflammation, which is often the cause of so many pain management issues, and also address deficiencies (which still exist even in a healthy diet) that can contribute to pain.

And last but not least, one more hug for you! :hugsalot:

mmaria · Sep 23, 2014

Leonore, you brought up some really good points... here's what I have to say...

limr said:
Paul brings up something that I was actually thinking about. I know you've seen a lot of doctors - were they all gynecologists? Did you ever see other kinds of doctors? Specifically I was thinking about an endocrinologist or a neurologist. The pain is localized and limited to when your hormone balance changes - perhaps it's an issue with really drastic imbalance, or maybe something about that imbalance is interfering with the pain receptors, making nerve endings fire without real cause.

Yes, I've seen endocrinologists also, and in different periods/stages in my life. Everything with my hormones is fine.

Oxytocine is interesting for me but doctors don't find it interesting for me...

I've seen neurologist for a different brain related "thing" a year and a half ago, I did MR of the brain and everything was perfect. I haven't seen neurologist for this issue.

The hormone shift also causes a drop in magnesium levels, which is important for pain management. Have any of the doctors ever suggested taking a magnesium supplement? You'd take one starting the day before the pain is supposed to start (you said you can predict the dates, right?) and continue for 3-4 days. Not too much, though, because it can cause stomach problems. They say the daily dose for women is 320mg. I'd probably start lower and work up if you need to.

Your diet probably contains enough magnesium, but it might be worth looking into to see if there are certain vegetables to eat more of, or at least eat more of right before your period instead of taking a supplement.

I don't want to keep throwing the word "diet" at you because I know you eat healthy, but the pain might be hinting at certain deficiencies. I just read this in one of the articles I found: "One 2009 study looked at the vitamin D levels of people with chronic pain who were using opioid painkillers. Those who had a deficiency of vitamin D needed almost twice as high a dose of medication to control their pain.

Edwards now checks vitamin D levels in many of her patients with chronic pain. If they're lower than 50 to 70 nanograms/milliliter, she might recommend a supplement for natural pain relief."
That came from here: Natural Pain Relief: Chronic Pain Supplements

The idea is not just about eating healthy, but finding the foods and balance that can reduce inflammation, which is often the cause of so many pain management issues, and also address deficiencies (which still exist even in a healthy diet) that can contribute to pain.

Magnesium and vitamin D were also interesting to me... This theory also means that I have deficiency of Mg and D for whole of my life. Does it?

I was so hoping that I will solve my issues with Mg because I caught myself recently how I'm all of the sudden eating more food rich in Mg....
My sister in law ( pharmacist) explained how Mg "works" and told me that in this case I would have that deficiency for whole my life. I thought: Damn! But still, I'm putting on my skin a bit magnesium chloride these days