If I have *THESE* morals, how can I make money out of photography?

[photoguydudeperson]

I occasionally feel like going out and taking pictures of different things, from buildings to people to nature, to... Anything. I recently noticed that my pictures became so good that I'm actually impressed by them because I see similarly good pictures when I go to professional sites, so I thought that maybe I could commercialize on that.

Here's the problem however, I'll make a list for simplicity:

1. I only take pictures when I feel like it and the kind of pictures that I feel like.
2. I do not want my pictures to be used or edited by anyone without my explicit permission, and unless I like the idea - I won't give the permission.
3. I want to always, under any circumstances, retain my authorship and association with the picture.

That said, it could only be a side-project from which I somehow manage to make some extra money. I'm short on money now, so that would be great actually, even if it's $50-100 a month. Hell, even if it's $10 or $20 a month, to be honest.

Now, is it possible to make any kind of money with these morals? They are non-negotiable, but I'm also not trying to be a photographer as a career, I have different goals in life, even if I really enjoy snapping pictures and somehow became good at it.

Please tell me if it's not possible as well, instead of just ignoring the thread. Thank you.

 

[Taveuni]

They're not really morals are they?
More like requisites I'd say and if you're any good you might make some pocket money. Go for it

 

[photoguydudeperson]

They're not really morals are they?
More like requisites I'd say and if you're any good you might make some pocket money. Go for it

Yea, maybe I used the wrong word, and I didn't want to sound like a total ahole.

Go for what? That's exactly my question here.

 

[Taveuni]

Go for broke and try to make some money. I wasn't exactly going off on a tangent.
People do pay for photos.
Proof will be in the pudding.

 

[photoguydudeperson]

Go for broke and try to make some money. I wasn't exactly going off on a tangent.
People do pay for photos.
Proof will be in the pudding.

To be honest, I still don't know what you're trying to say.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Well, let's assume you're selling for commercial use first. If this is the case then you also have to assume that the person buying your image may actually be a professional designer, or will employ a professional designer, who will probably be much better than you with editing programs. They will probably have a far better knowledge of how to present your image so it sells (they won't be trying to make it worse). Have you ever proofed your images for CMYK printing, colour-blindness, have you considered they might be used with text or a side bar?

If you're selling puppy shots for calendars then it's best not to behave like a prima-donna artist.

If you're selling fine prints then do it yourself, it's almost always better to sell locally.

But before you spend any money please get the opinion of others on your work, after all; it's them who will be buying not you. A photographers opinion on his own work can often be biased.

 

[waday]

1. I only take pictures when I feel like it and the kind of pictures that I feel like.
2. I do not want my pictures to be used or edited by anyone without my explicit permission, and unless I like the idea - I won't give the permission.
3. I want to always, under any circumstances, retain my authorship and association with the picture.

It sounds like you want to do photography as a hobby (meaning no money, just personal happiness). I'm not saying that you can't make some sort of money doing this, but I think your list should be flexible while still being non-negotiable.

Just like Tim suggested, maybe you should consider selling locally (e.g., at local arts and crafts shows), especially if your goal is to just make $10-20 a month.

That said, your list... I'm going to rephrase these using a desk job as an example:

1. I only do the work that I want to do and that I feel like doing. Sometimes I don't come in, sometimes I skip meetings. I only talk to the clients I feel like. I only answer the phone when I feel like it.
2. My reports are perfectly written, and I never have any errors, even grammatical. Everything I say is absolute truth, and anyone that disagrees with me is wrong. I won't let anyone speak over me or correct me when I'm wrong. If they do, I'll sue them. Also, they can't use my reports or emails, despite being paid to do this, unless I specifically indicate they can use them.
3. All written emails and reports are mine, not my company's or clients'. If I tell them to stop reading an email or report, they have to immediately delete it. They also have to say my name out loud for all to hear prior to reading anything I've written. It's also a requirement that my headshot be posted on every page so that people know I wrote it.

It sounds pretty darn silly from this perspective.

Like Tim said, sometimes an image has to be altered slightly to be used realistically. That doesn't mean that you have to release your rights or authorship of the image. That doesn't mean that others can use it without your permission. They're your photos, and you determine how they want to be used. However, if someone says that it should be cropped or something should be changed for printing or other uses, are you going to take their recommendations into consideration or are you going to tell them off?

Why not post a few of your best photos for opinions from the peanut gallery on the best path forward?

 

[tirediron]

Pretty much what Tim said. If you're selling commercially, then it's not uncommon for the contract to call for the delivery of high-res .tif files which will be edited by the client's graphic-design team for their purpose(s). Further, if you're selling commercially, you shoot what you're told, when you're told, or you don't get paid, and your name turns to mud in the industry in a heartbeat, so we can assume commercial is out. Retail? Well... you can set your own hours, and have the clients come to you, if you choose, however, you need a fair amount of gear, not to mention insurance, licenses, and so forth. I'm guessing that's not in the cards any time soon. So... we're left with "fine art", or "shoot what you want, when you want", and process & print how you want and price it as you like. The problem here is that there aren't more than a few thousand people per square mile trying to do the same thing, and none of them are making money. Just because you see images on a "professional" website does NOT mean that the person is selling any, in fact, statistics indicate that it's very unlikely.

All of that said, if you want to try to make a few bucks, give it a whirl. If you make $50/months three months in a row, you should consider yourself a success and me amazed (and that's NOT a comment on your work or skil as I've seen neither).

 

[spiralout462]

Make some prints. Mat and frame them yourself and price them for what the market will bear. Good luck!

 

[Designer]

I can't do anything about your #1, but for #s 2 & 3, get your photographs copyrighted. Then look up an attorney who specializes in copyright infringement. Keep his contact information handy.

 

[SCraig]

Probably not, for a couple of reasons.

First you are trying to enter a market that is already horrendously bloated. For every so-called photography "Job" (and I include the hobbiest trying to make a few bucks on the side) there are probably a couple of hundred people trying to grab it. Hang around here for a while, there will be a new post every day by someone trying to do much the same thing.

Better yet, hang around Nashville and look at all the starving musicians. Or hang around Hollywood or New York and look at all the starving actors. Every one of them with the idea that they are great and can make it to the big time if someone will just give them a chance. If I've heard one mediocre guitar player who thought they were great I've heard a thousand. The bottom line being it's not your impression of your abilities that matters, it's the impression of the guy paying for your services.

Second, you're going to have to lose that "My Way Or The Highway" attitude. You're not the first nor will you be the last to try to start out with it. It's not a bad attitude if all you want to do is create photographs for your use, but I can guarantee that if you want to make any money you're going to have to lose it. When people are purchasing something they don't care about your "Artistic Values", they care about what THEY want and if you want to please clients your desires don't matter in the slightest.

And third, if you want exposure to clients you are going to have to use the internet, and if you put anything on the internet it can, and most likely will, be taken, used, edited, and otherwise violated regardless of what you allow or disallow. Nobody cares about your "Rules" and if they want to use it and it's available they will do so. There is nothing you can do to stop it other than not posting your photographs on the internet.

Good luck. Hope it works out for you. You may be the greatest photographer ever known but if not you've chosen a hobby with diminishing returns if you want to make money from it.

 

[tirediron]

I can't do anything about your #1, but for #s 2 & 3, get register your photograph's copyrighted. Then look up an attorney who specializes in copyright infringement. Keep his contact information handy.

FTFY - copyright is automatic at creation.

 

[KmH]

We don't know where the OP is because there is no location information in his profile.
So we can't assess market potential and legal considerations.

In the USA copyright is automatic once a photograph is recorded on a tangible medium - like a memory card.
Enforcement of your copyright is greatly aided by registering your copyrights with the US Copyright office.
Help! I’ve Been Infringed! | Photo Attorney
Registering Your Copyrights Using the eCO System | NatureScapes.Net – The Resource for Nature Photographers

A famous saying - "It takes money to make money".

 

[480sparky]

I see no issues in your desire to shoot what you want, when you want, and how you want.

Heck, that's what I do. And I manage to sell a bit here and there. It won't pay the rent, put food on the table, or make the car payments, but it does allow me a few extra bucks hither and yon to apply towards my GAS.

If asked, I will flat-out refuse commission work. Period.

 

[JoeW]

I occasionally feel like going out and taking pictures of different things, from buildings to people to nature, to... Anything. I recently noticed that my pictures became so good that I'm actually impressed by them because I see similarly good pictures when I go to professional sites, so I thought that maybe I could commercialize on that.

Here's the problem however, I'll make a list for simplicity:

1. I only take pictures when I feel like it and the kind of pictures that I feel like.
2. I do not want my pictures to be used or edited by anyone without my explicit permission, and unless I like the idea - I won't give the permission.
3. I want to always, under any circumstances, retain my authorship and association with the picture.

That said, it could only be a side-project from which I somehow manage to make some extra money. I'm short on money now, so that would be great actually, even if it's $50-100 a month. Hell, even if it's $10 or $20 a month, to be honest.

Now, is it possible to make any kind of money with these morals? They are non-negotiable, but I'm also not trying to be a photographer as a career, I have different goals in life, even if I really enjoy snapping pictures and somehow became good at it.

Please tell me if it's not possible as well, instead of just ignoring the thread. Thank you.

1. They're not really morals but demands or desires.

2. A paraphrase of your post is: "I want to shoot only when I feel like it, only of what I feel like shooting, I want to sell my work but retain full control." You can give that a try. But I want you to imagine the following scenario: you have paying gig that requires a model. You contact an agency, they send you a model's contact info and she says: "I will only pose when I feel like it, you have to show me the picture and if I don't like it you have to delete it, if I don't like the concept or work than I'll walk out, you have to get my permission before editing or selling or displaying any of the photos of me. Oh, and you're going to pay me too." You'd laugh.

You are totally free to shoot only when you want to and only of things you want to shoot. But that's unprofessional. Read Stephen Pressfield's great book (it's short) called "The War of Art" and it will explain very clearly that a professional is someone who shows up every day, not when it's convenient, not when they feel like it, not when they're in the mood. Professionals don't let their feelings, their moods, their health, or any of that other crap get in the way of their work and their productivity. So there are some hobbyists (i.e.: not professional) you make some money. But most do not--it's a hobby where more money goes out (on equipment or models or travel expenses) than comes in (on sales).

3. In this day and age, with so many scanners around, so many people with photo editing software, your ability to prevent someone from editing your photos or altering them or displaying them is near impossible. I'm not arguing you shouldn't attempt to control that, I'm only arguing that professionals who lose money when someone pirates their photos take people to court, and they still can't stop it. If you're really uncomfortable with someone doing something with your photos without your say so, if that ties your stomach up in knots then....don't sell or release or display your work. I'm not being sarcastic--there are plenty of hobbyists who operate this way. Plenty of models who enjoy posing but don't want their work to be public.

If your desires are really huge issues for you, if they're deal-breakers...then don't sell your photos and don't attempt to go in to business as a photographer. If, OTOH, you can accept the reality that if a client pays you to shoot something, they're going to demand some creative control and timing in the issue and they'll do the editing, that when you sell a photo the buyer tends to view this as they "OWN" that photo (regardless of what the law says)