I'm struggling to decide on a camera, sensor size, mirrorless or SLR...Think you can help? ;)

[TimmyD11]

That's my understanding as well, but I am an amateur and my gut feeling is I would be pleased with the in camera HDR.

Plus people may like to do HDR with bracketed shots on the computer because they want to work with RAW? Does in camera HDR only get saved as JPEG?

 

[beagle100]

That's my understanding as well, but I am an amateur and my gut feeling is I would be pleased with the in camera HDR.

Plus people may like to do HDR with bracketed shots on the computer because they want to work with RAW? Does in camera HDR only get saved as JPEG?

yes, shooting in RAW is better and in-camera bracketed shots is easy to process Photoshop, DPP, Lightroom, etc
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

 

[TimmyD11]

So the Canon 6D, Canon's cheapest full frame camera, is over 4 years old, and has come down to $1400.

But I understand Canon's sensors have improved in the last few years.

If I'd splurge for the 4+ year old 6D, is it still a superior camera to the newest APS-C cameras (t7i / 77D / 80D) or are the newer smaller sensors combined with the newer processors superior?

 

[TimmyD11]

Also, Nikon's D7200's price has dropped and with all the hype you'd think it were better than many full frame cameras. Is it? And why?

 

[cherylynne1]

Comparing camera specs is easy, just google "(Camera 1) vs. (Camera 2)." In this case, Canon 80d vs Canon 6d" results in links such as this: Canon 6D vs Canon 80D

Then you can compare for yourself which is better in the aspects you find important.

The Nikon 7200 was the best APS-C camera for many years. Most people know whether they want full frame or APS-C, so comprisons between them are largely irrelevant. A top-of-the-line APS-C camera will have features that a cheap, basic full frame camera will not. A full frame camera will have certain aspects of image quality that an APS-C camera will not.

You've narrowed it down to a few choices and you're becoming overwhelmed with decision paralysis. Go to a camera store. You're not going to get any further on your current path.

 

[Derrel]

Comparing camera specs is easy, just google "(Camera 1) vs. (Camera 2)." In this case, Canon 80d vs Canon 6d" results in links such as this: Canon 6D vs Canon 80D

Then you can compare for yourself which is better in the aspects you find important.

The Nikon 7200 was the best APS-C camera for many years. Most people know whether they want full frame or APS-C, so comprisons between them are largely irrelevant. A top-of-the-line APS-C camera will have features that a cheap, basic full frame camera will not. A full frame camera will have certain aspects of image quality that an APS-C camera will not.

You've narrowed it down to a few choices and you're becoming overwhelmed with decision paralysis. Go to a camera store. You're not going to get any further on your current path.

This is the best advice I've seen in this ongoing saga. Paralysis through over-analysis. Every salesman's nightmare client.

 

[TimmyD11]

This is the best advice I've seen in this ongoing saga. Paralysis through over-analysis. Every salesman's nightmare client.

Hence I haven't spoken to any sales people yet.

And you were the one I figured would be given me conclusive advice over whether or not an older entry level full frame camera is better or worse than a newer enthusiast APS-C camera.

 

[Derrel]

This is the best advice I've seen in this ongoing saga. Paralysis through over-analysis. Every salesman's nightmare client.

Hence I haven't spoken to any sales people yet.

And you were the one I figured would be given me conclusive advice over whether or not an older entry level full frame camera is better or worse than a newer enthusiast APS-C camera.

As a former camera salesman, I have a very strong hunch that my opinion would likely be discarded as soon as a competing article or blog post or fanboy comment were to be taken into consideration. DxO Mark can tell you what camera has a better sensor than another camera; there are older semi-pro-level FF cameras now for $350 to $450 (Canon 5D, Nikon D700)..but you said you don't want to buy a used camera. So...there's no point in even answering strawman questions if, as you stated, plainly, you do NOT want to buy a used camera.

You do not want an older entry level FF apparently. You wrote ," I'm reluctant to buy used. I'd just like to get the best camera I can get new. May not be a rational choice but that's my instinct."

I've been around camera buyers, camera users, and forum people for a long time. Forty years or so. I know what's going on here. I'm pretty familiar with personality types and buyer types and being afraid to make the wrong decision and wanting to have EVERYTHING be the best it can be. For $700 to $1,400. You need to make a decision at some point. You are indeed, struggling to decide, regarding multiple aspects of your future purchase. Brand, format,style,feature set,new or used or refurbished, budget level, and so on. You are in a situation that many of us have seen, multiple times. I've stated my recommendations a couple of times, but really, I'm done with advice-giving. I wish I could help, but it's clear that the time to make the decision has come. Or not. Perhaps more time would help clarify this purchase. Maybe try a rental...

You live withing a short drive of two of the world's largest camera stores. Adorama and B&H Photo have mirrorless, d-slr's, APS-C, FF,FX,and m4/3, new, and used, and refurbished, Canon,Nikon,Fuji,Sony,Pentax,and Olympus, Panasonic, and so on. Maybe some actual, real hands-on time with some cameras and lenses would help narrow down the possible choices?

Just get a good camera, that's 30% of it. The other 70% is your skill and artistic vision.

 

[cherylynne1]

The longer you wait to go to a camera store and physically hold them in your hands, the worse the paralysis will get, which is why we keep pushing you to do that rather than comparing spec sheets.

And no one can conclusively say whether older full frames are "better" than newer APS-C. There are a thousand different things that they could be judged on. When you have two specific cameras you'd like to compare, that can be done, and I showed you how to Google that answer.

 

[TimmyD11]

Derrel I said I did not want to buy an older USED full frame camera. I'd consider an older NEW full frame camera if I learned that it was superior to a less expensive new APS-C camera.

Guess what I'd like to know is if Canon improved their sensor / processor combinations enough that a t7i / 77D / 80D is now as good or better than the older 6D.

May come down to an APS-C camera with a much better lens immediately or a 6D and putting a new lens on hold until I knock down the credit card enough after purchasing the 6D.

 

[Derrel]

I just made this meme for you, Tim. All in good fun!

Hope you take advantage of this weekend to head in to Adorama or B&H Photo, to lay some hands on some actual photo gear! You might dislike some stuff, you might like other stuff, you might fall in love with something too!

Get the budget set; you can not buy what you cannot afford to buy, so that alone, having an actual,firm budget limit, ought to eliminate a huge swath of potential products!

 

[cherylynne1]

Did you even click on the link I sent you, comparing the 80d and the 6d? I don't know, I'm starting to feel like you only respond to others in this thread when I'm trying so hard to answer your specific questions.

You want my advice? You have no need for full frame, old or new. I have a personal bias against the Rebel line because of how laughably behind the T3-T5s were in comparison to similarly priced competition. Maybe the 7 is a little better, but I'd never put money on it. The 80d is a great camera, and the 80d with a good lens will beat the 6d with a kit lens any day of the week. In fact, a crappy Rebel with a great lens will beat out a full frame camera any day of the week. But you're so stuck on spec sheets you're ignoring those kinds of things. The lens, the lighting, and above all, the skill of the photographer will make more of a difference than any sensor in the history of photography.

I'm sorry if I sound short, I'm just really starting to feel frustrated (and those of you that have known me for awhile know how very rarely I get frustrated.)

 

[TimmyD11]

Sorry cherylynne1

Imaging Resource is a credible source?

 

[cherylynne1]

Imaging Resource, Camera Decision, Snap sort, etc all basically just repeat info from DxO Mark. You can go straight to DxO Mark as well, I'm just usually on my phone and Imaging Resource is easier to read. They aren't forming opinions, they're just stating facts. If you want to read opinions, DPreview has excellent and thorough reviews.

DxO Mark isn't a perfect system for judging sensors, but it's the best available. It's generally used as the standard. You can compare high ISOs visually by using the Studio Comparison tool at DPreview. They use many cameras to take photos of the same scene under the same conditions, and you can compare close-ups under versions ISOs to see what you would consider the better choice.

 

[TimmyD11]

No dxomark for the 77D or T7i.

It appears the 80D gets it's clock cleaned by the D7200. Even the D3400.

If it weren't for my Canon lenses and the curiosity of Canon's in camera HDR settings I'd just switch to Nikon.