It feel so good!

[Village Idiot]

What's you're side of the coin? I think telling some one to buy which ever camera feels right is a feeble attempt to sway some one to their brand. I mean, at least compare important things like ISO performance, FPS, AF speed and AF accuracy.

Sure, it might not mean anything to a noob at the moment they buy their camera, but when they learn for that they got a camera that won't perform as well as another one and they bought it because some one told them to buy based on feel, they're going to resent that.

 

[Big Mike]

Telling someone to buy a camera by feel...is a nice way of saying that the gear doesn't' really matter. It's the photographer that makes the difference. Gear heads like us, like to talk about "ISO performance, FPS, AF speed and AF accuracy"...but knowledge and good technique make up for any of that. Besides, those technologies are constantly improving...so if you are buying gear based on those things...you will never be satisfied because there will always be a newer & better model around the corner.
Only a few years ago, cameras were a step or two behind where they are today...but we still managed to create great images. Auto focus has only been popular for the last 20-30 years...and there were plenty of great images taken before that.

What we should say, when someone asks what camera to buy, is for them to go read a book or some good web sites. Learn about the basics of photography so that they understand the terms and specs of the cameras and the lenses. Most people don't want to do that...at least not until they already have a camera.

I think telling some one to buy which ever camera feels right is a feeble attempt to sway some one to their brand

How do you figure that? I think that by rattling off a bunch of specs & stats...we would be steering people to whatever brand we favor. By telling them to go into a store and see the cameras for themselves, we are saying that any of the major brands would be an OK choice.

And really, if someone went into a store and bought the camera that felt best to them...they would probably be quite happy. Unless they spent their time on internet forums and listened to other people complain about the deficiencies of their camera long enough that they start to believe them.

 

[Overread]

For me it depends on the person asking. Many people just say (and think) that they just want a good camera to take photos of things - they have few main areas of key inerest (though family snaps is usually on most peoples minds) and that makes choosing (and advising) based on specs very hard to do.
You can't tell a person they need to get a camera with faster FPS if all they are interested in is landscapes and buildings - the reverse is also true.

This is very much in stark contrast to myself when I started out as I had uses for the camera - ideas of where I wanted ot use it and be good and that helped shape what advice people could give me even though many of the terms were rather meaningless to me at the time (ISO noise, focal length etc... are all pointless terms until you experience using and working with them).

So for me my stance depends on the person - if they are just out for a generalist camera then most of the cameras on the market will do that and if they go for canon or nikon the lenses and range are wide enough that if they want to, they can move into almost any area of specific interest and get good kit that they need. Other brands like Olympus also have a good lens range open to them - but whilst many have good pro level support the budget lines can be a bit limited at times (though sigma make a lot of crossplatform budget gear) and that is imortant as many people don't want to or simply can't spend £1000s on pro level gear - all they want is a few £100 lenses at most to cover their interests.
I don't think that when people say "go by feel" that it goes alone as advice - most people say try by feel on these models (and then list a few) and those camera models are normaly quite comparable in what they offer - the only times I know where there is a definite splite is the Nikon D40 with its lack of an AF motor - which is still only limiting in some ways (I don't have enough of an eye on the nikon lens range to know what the alternatives on offer are or how major the limitations are to a person)

 

[dcclark]

I suspect that the proper sequence to deal with people who ask these questions is:

1. What do you want in a camera? (What features / uses are important?)
2. Are there any price limitations?
3. What kinds of cameras within those limitations fill your needs?
4. Which of those feel best?

That's where the "it feels so good" comes in -- once you have it down to a few cameras which do what you want, why not pick the one that feels best?

I've seen this issue come up a lot recently, and it is ridiculous to make fun of the "pick one that feels right" solution -- mainly because people are twisting around that phrase and claiming that that is the ONLY criteria being used. Obviously it should not be, and if you look at threads where people ask for recommendations, #1-#3 tend to happen first.

 

[Village Idiot]

I've seen this issue come up a lot recently, and it is ridiculous to make fun of the "pick one that feels right" solution -- mainly because people are twisting around that phrase and claiming that that is the ONLY criteria being used. Obviously it should not be, and if you look at threads where people ask for recommendations, #1-#3 tend to happen first.

I've seen one Pentax user switch in the past couple of months and another one thinking about it this week because they don't provide features specific to the type of photography a person wants to do.

 

[Village Idiot]

I've seen this issue come up a lot recently, and it is ridiculous to make fun of the "pick one that feels right" solution -- mainly because people are twisting around that phrase and claiming that that is the ONLY criteria being used. Obviously it should not be, and if you look at threads where people ask for recommendations, #1-#3 tend to happen first.

Me too, and mainly it's some one just suggesting that a person go in and pick the camera with the best ergonomics and that ergonomics is the important factor and that IQ will be similar with any of the brands. Why would you buy a Canon, Sony, or Nikon if you're going to be shooting in conditions where you need a weather sealed camera (Provided you're not buying a $3000 camera)? Because you liked the way the Nikon felt? I bet you'd be pretty pissed off the first time you got caught in the rain and ended up with a pretty black paper weight.

 

[inTempus]

I view it as a personal matter. We can't really predict what someone will like or dislike. I like Canon, others like Nikon. Some others like Pentax and Olympus... For many it's a look/feel that gets their attention. For others it's pure specs and reviews by magazines/ezines. For others it's purely an issue of price. For others its a combination of all of the above.

People really need to figure it out for themselves. That's what I did. I did read A LOT about the various makes/models but in the end I spent time playing with all those I was interested in and made my decision. For me it was about ease of use, image quality, price and availability of accessories and company reputation.

 

[SrBiscuit]

i think ANDS! said it best when he bluntly stated:

This nonsense about "camera feel" is silly - your muscle memory will adapt to the fell of WHATEVER camera you get. Unless a manufacturer is building camera bodies with spikes in them, or that are so ergonomically **** that a person suffers from using it - then yea, camera feel would rate somewhere around "What media does the camera use. . ." as far as importance to my decision.

 

[dEARlEADER]

I agree with what Villiage Idiot said in respect to Nikon being better....

 

[inTempus]

I agree with what Villiage Idiot said in respect to Nikon being better....

I'm surprised it took 9 posts to get to this point.

 

[Flash Harry]

I say buy the best you can afford, you'll grow into it as your knowledge increases, oh, and nikon is better. H

 

[mrodgers]

Telling someone to buy a camera by feel...is a nice way of saying that the gear doesn't' really matter.

I would say this except stating about the different "classes" of cameras.

You can compare specs all day long, but in comparing specs from what I see, the equivelant camera classes through all brands of cameras are similar enough not to matter. You certainly wouldn't say "gear doesn't matter" comparing a D40 and a whatever Canon topdog is (5DMarksomethingorother..) It's obvious a Canon Marksomething is going to be a much better camera similar to an XS vs. D700. Specs do matter in that respect when you want better ISO performance or something, of which you would be jumping to another class of camera rather than another brand.

i think ANDS! said it best when he bluntly stated:

"This nonsense about "camera feel" is silly - your muscle memory will adapt to the fell of WHATEVER camera you get. Unless a manufacturer is building camera bodies with spikes in them, or that are so ergonomically **** that a person suffers from using it - then yea, camera feel would rate somewhere around "What media does the camera use. . ." as far as importance to my decision. "

Muscle memory doesn't matter, IMO. If I like the layout of Nikon, I am not going to like the layout of Canon from what I am seeing with looking at them. Ergonomically, with a Nikon (D40) in my hand, my finger was on the shutter and my thumb was on the wheel. My finger didn't move off the shutter to play around with any button. With Canon (XS) where is the wheel? It is right in front of the shutter (behind? can't quite remember now.) Finger has to leave the shutter to adjust settings. That does not make ergonomical sense to me, I want my finger on the shutter and ready at all times.

I started the thread asking about the similarities of cameras as you move up the line, which is what I would believe sparked this thread. I've sinced looked at images of the Nikon and Canon lineups. What I see is through the entire Nikon line, the wheel is on the back to be used with the thumb while the index finger stays on the shutter. With those that have 2 wheels, I see the back wheel and also the 2nd wheel on the front of the camera to be used with the middle finger while the index stays on the shutter. With the higher Canons, I still see the wheel up near the shutter so that you still have to remove your finger from the shutter or else it looks awkward to use.

That is the difference in ergonomics that I see and that I was wondering of when I started my thread. That to me is important. It has nothing to do with muscle memory. If you don't like one layout, you are still not going to like the layout even with muscle memory. If it doesn't make sense to you, muscle memory isn't going to change that. It still isn't going to make sense ergonomically.

That's my thoughts.

And.... good discussions here lately. I'm enjoying them.

 

[dcclark]

I've seen one Pentax user switch in the past couple of months and another one thinking about it this week because they don't provide features specific to the type of photography a person wants to do.

... sounds like someone failed to go through questions #1 through #3 first!

Oh, and as far as Nikon/Canon/Sony, remember that paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, and scissors beats paper.

 

[inTempus]

Ergonomically, with a Nikon (D40) in my hand, my finger was on the shutter and my thumb was on the wheel. My finger didn't move off the shutter to play around with any button. With Canon (XS) where is the wheel? It is right in front of the shutter (behind? can't quite remember now.) Finger has to leave the shutter to adjust settings. That does not make ergonomical sense to me, I want my finger on the shutter and ready at all times.

You do know you have a wheel just in front of your shutter on a Nikon that's required to change settings, right? You also have one just behind it for your thumb. The one in front of the shutter requires you to remove your finger from the shutter button just as the Canon design does.

The Canon has a thumb wheel too, it's just larger and lower on the case than the Nikon design.

When I pickup a D700 I'm amazed at all the buttons and switches all over the place. I much prefer the simplicity of the Canon design. But others prefer the design of the Nikon. To each their own.

 

[Village Idiot]

... sounds like someone failed to go through questions #1 through #3 first!

Oh, and as far as Nikon/Canon/Sony, remember that paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, and scissors beats paper.

Some some one who is shooting in dark conditions and wants and entry level camera is going to pick Nikon because of the feel and find out later that all of Canon's cameras in the last few years have CMOS sensors where entry level Nikons still use CCD sensors which aren't as good at hiding noise at high ISO's because some one told them to pick a camera because of how it felt and not on how it performed.

It reminds me of Harley. All their brochures I've seen want you to buy a bike based on how the wind feels in your face and how the freedom of the open road feels where as pretty much all the import manufactures push specs.