I've been asked to remove photographs I took for a company from my Flickr account

[Josh66]

One more thing to maybe consider: Are you still an employee with them and, if so, would you like to continue to be an employee with them?

yes, I'm still an employee and yes I still want to be employed by them. I like my job.... a lot. I see this as an unfortunate situation and I guess I'm kind of upset to have received such an email after what I've done.

Understandable. You went out of your way to do them a favor, and now they want to screw you for it...

 

[Kerbouchard]

yes, I'm still an employee and yes I still want to be employed by them. I like my job.... a lot. I see this as an unfortunate situation and I guess I'm kind of upset to have received such an email after what I've done.

Just one other thing to consider. Obviously, my name is not Kerbouchard but my flickr feed and online photo forums use that monicker.

I am in what would probably be considered senior manangement and neither my management or my subordinates know my username, aren't friends on my facebook, and are not privy to what online forums I frequent. If some random manager found your flickr feed so easily, you may consider putting some distance between your online presence and your business life.

For me, the two do not mix. As you've found out the hard way, it's a lot less hassle.

I still think if you wanted to go that route, with the laws in the UK, you probably have a potentially great lawsuit if you were so inclined. If I was feeling particularly mischevious, I would take the following steps. Document everything. Comply with their requests to remove the photos without putting anything in writing. Let them use the photos for commercial purposes. Take screen shots of that usage. And then I would have an attorney contact them with my resignation letter and the lawsuit asking for real and punitive damages.

 

[TCampbell]

I have no idea what the rules are in the UK. But laws vary. I'll give you an example:

If there are no contracts in place which make the ownership of copyrights clear, then...

In the US: it depends on whether you were being compensated while creating the work. If you were NOT being compensated (an independent photographer who takes photos -- hoping to sell copies of them, but recognizing that there are no guaranteed buyers of the photographs) then that photographer, working at risk, is the sole owner of the copyright. If they sell copies of the work then the buyers only own the right to their individual copy... they do not own the work, cannot make additional copies of it without permission, etc. BUT... if they WERE being paid for their time, then the results of their work belong to the person who was compensating them for their time. Who owned the various equipment doesn't seem to matter.

In Canada: the owner of the copyright (so I'm told by Canadians) is the person who owns the negative. Since a digital camera has no negative, the law apparently recognizes that the owner of the digital sensor which created the images is the owner of the copyright (which seems really weird to me. I had to ask a Canadian what happens when you "rent" a camera that you don't own. Does the rental company then own your work? They did not know the answer to that question.)

Anyway, you are neither in the US nor Canada... I posted these as an example of how the law can vary.

But let's turn this around: You like the company and are otherwise happy working there. I have no idea how much they pay you, but lets just assume you are satisfied with your compensation. Let's further speculate that your images are worth a few hundred pounds each. Surely your annual compensation is worth well more than the total sum of these images if they were to "buy" them from you. So even if the laws in the UK are in your favor, and you make a fuss, you might "win" but they might choose to terminate your employment ...or just make your job a little less joyful in hopes that you'll quit. Either way, they *should* have been appreciative of your efforts and now they're behaving as though you're the bad employee for using these images without their permission.

The next time they'd like some images, you might point them in the direction of a professional photographer (preferably a VERY EXPENSIVE professional photographer). Perhaps that would be the wake-up call they need to recognize that even though you did this "on the clock" you were still being very kind to offer it and may have saved them quite a bundle.

 

[Josh66]

I'm too tired to research it - but I think there's more to it that just being on the clock.

If taking pictures is not part of your job description, I think that you own the copyright - even if you took the photos in question on the clock. Sounds like that is not the case anyway...

 

[bratkinson]

I'd like to cite two cases from US history...

1. They guy that invented the transistor was 'on the clock' at Bell Labs (Ma Bell, eg, AT&T at the time). He got a big Thank You and, if I recall correctly, some monetary bonus check...$1000 or so. AT&T made zillions from it.

2. The guy that invented 'Post It Notes' at 3M (Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing) was on a 'side project' to his normal work at 3M. 3M 'invited'/'solicited' employees to spend a couple hours a week on company time to 'invent' something new. That guy was looking to create a super, super, super-duper glue of some kind. What he got on one particular experiment was not-very-sticky stuff that can peel off and stick back on. I don't know how it ended up on small tabs of paper, but the rest is history. I'm sure, like the AT&T inventor, he got a big THANK YOU and some monetary bonus. 3M owns all rights (and profits) from Post It Notes.

In my own experience, both as a contractor and employee in the computer analysis & programming world, what I did on 'company time' belongs to the company. No ifs, ands, or buts. That was made clear verbally at the start of employment, until the late '70s or early '80s, when, most likely, ownership issues went to court and it was settled. After that, in writing, ownership of all 'created' work belongs to the employer. That's why one has a job...to create whatever it is to be created/made/manufactured, or provide a service.

Lunch break, in my mind, becomes a sticky issue. If it's a paid lunch break, then there's no doubt in my mind that ownership belongs to the company. Salaried employees are "effectively" paid for lunch time...even if it's lunch with a client while trying to make a sale. Hourly employees, with non-paid breaks, might still be considered 'on the job' as one (usually) hasn't left the premises. Consider someone that comes up with an idea during lunch, scribbles it on a napkin, and then goes back to work to create/build that idea. It belongs to the company. If the idea is not company related, and, instead, takes the idea home and builds it at home, then it's yours...although the company may try to prove you used company time and/or assets in the furtherance of your project.

Bottom line, if you 'fight' to keep it the pictures, you could end up fighting yourself out of a job. If you follow their instructions and wipe them out of your site, etc, then you've learned a valuable lesson...in the School of Hard Knocks. Not the first, not the last lesson to be learned that way.

 

[belial]

My take. You did it for a favor to the company to score points. You like your job and I doubt any monitory gain would justify the hassle to get it. Here's what I would do. Write a polite email to the manager apologizing for the supposed infraction explaining you were merely under a misconception. Then I'd delete any raw files or jpeg backups I have making the company responsible for the only copies. Then I'd move on. Just doesn't seem worth it. As to whether I'd do it again for the company I probably Would but that's just me. Little things to score points never hurt

 

[camerateur]

in relation to all of this, is there a certain contract OP could've used?

I don't need one , but if I or someone else did need a general photographer contract to give to a "client" or a similar thing such as OP's situation, it'd be great to know where I might find one?
maybe a website link to such contracts?
or a resource to purchase one or put one together?

 

[snowbear]

Perhaps one, or more of the employees did not like having photos of them posted on Flickr and complained to management. I agree that you can use this as a lesson learned. If the opportunity comes again, get a basic contract.

 

[Overread]

Just a thought, but maybe go to your manager with whom you originally made the agreement with and bring this matter to his/her attention. It might simply be that another manager is acting under an assumption that a regular company contract has been signed between you and the company and that its simply a matter of communication lines getting mixed up.
I say this especially as

One more thing to maybe consider: Are you still an employee with them and, if so, would you like to continue to be an employee with them?

yes, I'm still an employee and yes I still want to be employed by them. I like my job.... a lot. I see this as an unfortunate situation and I guess I'm kind of upset to have received such an email after what I've done.

this statement makes it sound like you won't be eager to follow any formal legal action against the company. Furthermore since you've very little to actually gain by following through any legal action and run the risk of damaging or even ending your relationship in a job that you enjoy I would advise against making a large fuss.

Again I'd say contact the manager you originally spoke to and let them deal with the situation. Worst comes to the worst you have a series of portraits you can't use on your website without risking your current job status. Since photography isn't your employment area (assumed) and since you can easily take portraits of other people to bolster any portfolio the only reason I can see to making a large stand is to uphold your basic rights - and doing so need not involve making big waves with threatening legal action.

 

[GeorgieGirl]

Hi,

Could someone offer me some advice?

I took series of photographs (portraits) for a company over the course of the past few months. I work for this company and offered to take pictures 1) as a kind gesture 2) to practice. I would get a request from a manager as and when and I would happily take the photos as requested out of my own time using my own equipment. I was delighted and flattered to have been asked. The photos I took have been used in various documentation and soon to be launched website.

I haven't uploaded all the photos I've taken, and I made no mention of the company whatsoever but the copyright was in my full name.

I have since been contacted by someone else (a second manager) within the company asking me to remove the photos from Flickr, and provide proof that there is an agreement in place that the company has allowed me to use the photographs I took elsewhere such as Flickr. No formal agreement was made in writing, I will admit that but the email I received is implying the photographs belong to the company since they requested them and are using them. I must stress, that I have no intention of posting the photographs elsewhere such as a blog or Facebook.

I've also been asked to confirm that the photographs taken are available to the company on various other systems, which they are.

Other than remove the images from my Flickr account as requested, which I have already done is there anyway we can come to a mutual agreement I haven't been paid for the photos I've taken but would it be unreasonable to ask, if they want to continue using the photos I've taken that I be suitably credited if not then the company must stop using them at my request?

Please advise, I'm feeling quite stressed out about this

Here is what I am reading from this:

1. These photos were developed over an extended period of time
2. At the request of a maager for where and/or when
3. The company has used oyur photos in documents
4. The company plans to use your photos in their soon to be launched website
5. The company has aksed for availablitlity of the photos for their own use


Your Question was: I haven't been paid for the photos I've taken but would it be unreasonable to ask, if they want to continue using the photos I've taken that I be suitably credited if not then the company must stop using them at my request?


I think that it makes sense to speak with a solictor and while you are in a bind as this is your employer, it does seem that the facts as you laid them out indicate that your company is out of bounds. While the requests are friendly from them, I do think a firm friendly no (a sort of cease and desist from you) is in order, after getting your advise of course. Their request for an open ended use of your images seems to be unreasonable to me and it does not seem to me that they intend to play fair with you.

 

[DiskoJoe]

Hi,

Could someone offer me some advice?

I took series of photographs (portraits) for a company over the course of the past few months. I work for this company and offered to take pictures 1) as a kind gesture 2) to practice. I would get a request from a manager as and when and I would happily take the photos as requested out of my own time using my own equipment. I was delighted and flattered to have been asked. The photos I took have been used in various documentation and soon to be launched website.

I haven't uploaded all the photos I've taken, and I made no mention of the company whatsoever but the copyright was in my full name.

I have since been contacted by someone else (a second manager) within the company asking me to remove the photos from Flickr, and provide proof that there is an agreement in place that the company has allowed me to use the photographs I took elsewhere such as Flickr. No formal agreement was made in writing, I will admit that but the email I received is implying the photographs belong to the company since they requested them and are using them. I must stress, that I have no intention of posting the photographs elsewhere such as a blog or Facebook.

I've also been asked to confirm that the photographs taken are available to the company on various other systems, which they are.

Other than remove the images from my Flickr account as requested, which I have already done is there anyway we can come to a mutual agreement I haven't been paid for the photos I've taken but would it be unreasonable to ask, if they want to continue using the photos I've taken that I be suitably credited if not then the company must stop using them at my request?

Please advise, I'm feeling quite stressed out about this

Take them down and make them pay you to license the photos. Do not give them anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chuckdee]

Tough situation. If you value your job and don't want to lose it, well you know what you have to do. I think it's pretty clear that you shouldn't shoot for them again unless you have something in writing for some compensation, if not, don't shoot.

 

[bhop]

Personally, i'd just forget it this time and chalk it up as a learning experience, considering you like your job. Not worth causing work problems over a few freebie photos.

I'm not the official photographer at my work, i'm a graphic designer, but thanks to the tightwad bean counters, I have better gear than our official guy (the irony), so i'm asked to take some shots for our catalog sometimes by our creative director. I love photography, and it gets me away from the desk for a few hours, so i'm always glad to do it, but I rarely post anything that I shoot for work online, and if I do, I either wait until our catalog is out, or just make sure I have permission first. Luckily my company's pretty laid back, so I don't really have to worry about it..

 

[sm4him]

There are some things about this that I'd like to know more about:

1. WHY do they want the photos taken down? Does the email specify that? If not, have you asked? Something else the OP said suggested these are largely photos of other employees, and so--as another poster mentioned--perhaps this whole thing is because someone saw a photo of themselves and didn't like it being online? Or perhaps the company simply fears this MIGHT happen.

2. WHY does the OP want to post the pictures personally? Are you aiming to make these a part of your professional portfolio? Are you using them to solicit other photography business? According to your sig, you have a D5100 and a 50mm prime. Not exactly the stuff professionals carry (not knocking the OP or the equipment here--I have the D5100 as well--but it's NOT pro equipment). WHAT is the benefit to the OP of being able to post these photos?? In other words, is this really even worth all your anxiety and stress about it, or would it be better to just let it go?

I do 99% of the photography for my employer, including photos of press conferences, award ceremonies, etc that sometimes get published (in goofy little local media outlets or our horrible daily newspaper, not in anything impressive!). They also get put on our website, FB page, blog, etc (by me, since I'm also the Social Media Guru). However, like you, photography is not part of my job description, unless you lump it in that pesky little "other duties as assigned" phrase.

Regardless of the answers to those questions, two things seem obvious to me (assuming you like your job and plan to stay there):
1. You are very likely S.O.O.L. (Sh*t Out of Luck) for this particular incident. Live and learn.
2. You need to get this worked out so that both you and the company understand who can do what with your photos.

Otherwise, you'll end up in a situation like I found myself in recently. I took some photos of a company event a few years ago, and they discovered I actually had some skills (more than any of them!) so I become the "unofficial official" photographer, although it is NOT in my job description (except under that pesky, "and other duties as assigned" catchphrase!). That was fine, and even the occasional photo of mine that got printed elsewhere without credit was okay, since I knew that they weren't really award-winning photos anyway. But then one day, I came across two of my photos, published in a fairly large-distribution trade magazine--one was a full-page photo. This time, credit WAS given--to someone ELSE!! THAT hurt my pride!

I am now in the process of drafting a written set of "guidelines" for the use and rights of any photos I take for the company using my own camera equipment, so that they can use what they want, when they want, but the photos are still MINE, and credit has to be given, and I have to be made aware of anyone outside the company being given permission to use one of my photos.