My first ever HDR image

[Bynx]

Not at you Hugh. I was explaining why there is discord on a forum that is just seeking help after you said you didnt understand the hate, discontent and condescending attitudes. The "he" in my last post was Catalano. If people just helped instead of suggesting some other method to use the camera Im betting we would all get along better. Its like someone coming into the Photo forum and suggesting to everyone that they should be all trading in their cameras and shooting with a Winchester because its a better way of shooting. Suggesting to someone they shouldnt be shooting HDR, in an HDR forum, is stupid.

cgipson I have this site set up so the HDR forum is my home page. Thats all Im interested in seeing on this site. I very seldom post anywhere else so I dont just wonder around giving my opinion on lots of things of which I know nothing like it seems some people do here constantly. And thats not pointed at you, since you do have a grasp of HDR.

 

[cgipson1]

Shooting for HDR I think goes beyond simple photography. Regardless what many think there is more work and planning that goes into an HDR image.

I agree with this.. and this very concept is part of the problem. To properly execute an HDR image does require extra thought, and ability. And too much of what we are seeing does not have that extra thought or planning put into it! And it is often used to hide lack of ability! So many use HDR just because they think it looks cool.. even though they are overprocessing the hell of their images, without a clue as to what they are doing.

Any HDR image is better than any single shot. Ive never seen this proved otherwise.

HDR has the capability of being better than any single exposure... yes.. if done properly to bring out details in the dark ranges, and not blow out the highlight ranges! Done improperly, I will take a single exposure anytime, rather than the cartoonish tone-mapped junk that some seem to find appealing. Of course, that is a personal opinion and a personal dislike also.

Bynx, you and I have gotten along well in the past.. and I respect your work and ability... and I hope that is mutual! And I hope that continues!

 

[cgipson1]

Not at you Hugh. I was explaining why there is discord on a forum that is just seeking help after you said you didnt understand the hate, discontent and condescending attitudes. The "he" in my last post was Catalano. If people just helped instead of suggesting some other method to use the camera Im betting we would all get along better. Its like someone coming into the Photo forum and suggesting to everyone that they should be all trading in their cameras and shooting with a Winchester because its a better way of shooting. Suggesting to someone they shouldnt be shooting HDR, in an HDR forum, is stupid.

cgipson I have this site set up so the HDR forum is my home page. Thats all Im interested in seeing on this site. I very seldom post anywhere else so I dont just wonder around giving my opinion on lots of things of which I know nothing like it seems some people do here constantly. And thats not pointed at you, since you do have a grasp of HDR.

We are good! I submitted my last post.. before seeing this one! I use HDR a bit still.. usually for exposure fusion with B&W.. more than tone-mapping color. Still have a lot to learn there also!

 

[Bynx]

I think B&W from a well or even mediocre HDR is spectacular. All the details are brought out making me think of Ansel Adams who did his HDR a slightly different way, but HDR nonetheless.

 

[HughGuessWho]

Hugh.. a lot of us use the "Active Topics" link.. so we see ALL current threads... and often comment on them. We do not come to the HDR discussions forum specifically. Some of us do try to offer constructive criticism... some of us don't. I don't think Bynx was aiming that at you... it was probably at Catalano, although it might have been at me too!

Oh, I wasn't referring to you. Anytime I read a critique from you its constructive and helpful and you explain your opinion. I've never read a post from you with the "you suck and I'm amazing" flavor that some on this string leave on a regular basis. But... enough of that, this is the HDR section.

 

[cgipson1]

Hugh.. a lot of us use the "Active Topics" link.. so we see ALL current threads... and often comment on them. We do not come to the HDR discussions forum specifically. Some of us do try to offer constructive criticism... some of us don't. I don't think Bynx was aiming that at you... it was probably at Catalano, although it might have been at me too!

Oh, I wasn't referring to you. Anytime I read a critique from you its constructive and helpful and you explain your opinion. I've never read a post from you with the "you suck and I'm amazing" flavor that some on this string leave on a regular basis. But... enough of that, this is the HDR section.

:hug:: Thank you, that means a lot! I CAN be an ass sometimes... but I usually try to be nice!

 

[manaheim]

Would you call b/w art? How about acryllic paints?

HDR isn't art, it's a method... perhaps a medium... but not art in and of itself.

There's nothing wrong with that, and you can certainly produce wonderful art using that method, but simply rendering something with HDR hardly makes it art.

If photography is art, then HDR is art. Take the painter who uses traditional paints; is the painter who uses oils not creating art because he does not use traditional paints?

To be honest, I'm not sure photography is an art either... photography can be artistic, but it can also be a picture of my cat, or a shot of a dent I took from a read end collision... with that in mind, I suppose you could argue HDR was an art because there is generally some sort of artistic intent in choosing to use it, but I'd say that's pusing it.

You could say that HDR is "an art" in the sense of it being something that isn't easy to accomplish and takes practice and skill, but I don't think that's what you're suggesting here... is it?

All of the things we employ to make art are tools. No more, no less. Cameras, paint brushes, black and white, HDR... tools. To put it another way, no more is HDR art than a spoon is food. You may employ the spoon to make food. You may employ the HDR to make art. You may also employ the spoon to dig a ditch. You may also employ the HDR to make a mess of a picture of your friends badass Volkswagen.

Tools to make the art. Not art itself.

 

[manaheim]

Not at you Hugh. I was explaining why there is discord on a forum that is just seeking help after you said you didnt understand the hate, discontent and condescending attitudes. The "he" in my last post was Catalano. If people just helped instead of suggesting some other method to use the camera Im betting we would all get along better. Its like someone coming into the Photo forum and suggesting to everyone that they should be all trading in their cameras and shooting with a Winchester because its a better way of shooting. Suggesting to someone they shouldnt be shooting HDR, in an HDR forum, is stupid.

cgipson I have this site set up so the HDR forum is my home page. Thats all Im interested in seeing on this site. I very seldom post anywhere else so I dont just wonder around giving my opinion on lots of things of which I know nothing like it seems some people do here constantly. And thats not pointed at you, since you do have a grasp of HDR.

Bynx, this HDR section is a subset of a larger forum... that forum would be... PHOTOGRAPHY!

In other words, photography is the primary focus here, and employment of HDR is a slave to that. Therefore, those who are on here will tend to be thinking of photography, and will periodically point out that an HDR was essentially not worth the effort because the same image could be captured with a single exposure... or that HDRing a poorly composed (but rivetingly colorful) picture of feces dung may not be the best use of one's time, because... well... it's a bad picture.

If this were TheHDRForum.com and this section was a photography section and people came in here going off on you for using HDRs, I suppose you would have more of a point. But it's not.

 

[HughGuessWho]

Did you ever stop to consider what the OP asked in the beginning of the thread? What the THREAD is about? You no doubt impress yourself with your comments, but they have absolutely nothing to do with what the thread is about. Just sayin'.

 

[manaheim]

Did you ever stop to consider what the OP asked in the beginning of the thread? What the THREAD is about? You no doubt impress yourself with your comments, but they have absolutely nothing to do with what the thread is about. Just sayin'.

So the guy that can't use quote tags properly is going to lecture me on how to use a forum?

K.

Thanks for the tip.

EDIT: ooo... he fixed it.

EDIT EDIT: Snide remarks from me, aside, I hardly think you can accuse me of derailing this particular thread. I just happen to be on the train and am going along for the ride. Don't like it? Meh. Shout at the rain. It'll do you as much good.

 

[HughGuessWho]

No, it's about lecturing people who feel like they have to demeaning and degrading to everyone. You should re-read your own “lecture” that you posted moments ago and then look in the mirror. Oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot. YOU are the All Knowing and everyone else is clueless.
By the way, I didn’t mention your name OR quote you. What makes you think I was talking about you, huh?

 

[Bynx]

Bynx, this HDR section is a subset of a larger forum... that forum would be... PHOTOGRAPHY!

In other words, photography is the primary focus here, and employment of HDR is a slave to that. Therefore, those who are on here will tend to be thinking of photography, and will periodically point out that an HDR was essentially not worth the effort because the same image could be captured with a single exposure... or that HDRing a poorly composed (but rivetingly colorful) picture of feces dung may not be the best use of one's time, because... well... it's a bad picture.

If this were TheHDRForum.com and this section was a photography section and people came in here going off on you for using HDRs, I suppose you would have more of a point. But it's not.

All I can say to this is what a crock of sh!t. This is the HDR forum. If you want to preach not to use HDR go someplace else because that kind of diatribe isnt welcome. Sure its part of the Photography site but I think it goes beyond Photography. Now to those silly purists, that's saying a no no, but its true. There are very few people with cameras that haunt these forums that are capable of producing an image which meets the quality of a properly executed HDR image. Anyone posting an HDR image in the HDR forum should expect to receive nothing but help to improve their post. Not to be told it wasnt necessary, its uninteresting, or its crap with no explanation of why or how. Sure there is lots of crap by color blind people with cameras. But if they are really interested in learning HDR they can learn to do it right if they pay attention. They learn nothing from the likes of the guy already mentioned too many times here. As to your last drivel about spoons and tools and art. What drugs are you on? A polaroid is a camera and it takes a picture. I would never consider for a moment that anything coming from that camera without any intervention by the photographer would be called art. But once there is any kind of intervention by the photographer to change the image in a way that the person wants, then it falls into the realm of art. Good art, or bad art, but art nonetheless. Now on thinking what I just said, I suppose that with an 8x10 back on a professional very expensive camera a work of art could be made from a polaroid print, but we are not considering that expense when referring to a polaroid camera.

 

[manaheim]

Come on, it was a perfectly well-reasoned argument and you just went off on an overly-defensive tirade.

Come on, Bynx. I know you can see more in there than that.

I say this with the utmost respect, btw. I'm not giving you ****.

I understand what you're saying... people do expect (and have reason to expect) help in making an HDR more effective as a technical execution, but it IS a photography forum, and they should equally expect people to express opinions on how to better execute the PHOTOGRAPH as well. Suggesting otherwise is being a little bit narrow.

And then you're saying you can't generate art off a crappy polaroid camera? Really?

Maybe you're more far gone into this HDR world than I thought. Dunno.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

To be honest, I'm not sure photography is an art either...

I think you answer yourself:

photography can be artistic, but it can also be a picture of my cat, or a shot of a dent I took from a read end collision...

Within the context of our conversation, for all intents and purposes, HDR is artistic by nature. Why? Because it isn't just a picture of a dent or a shot of a cat. Sure, there is lots of bad and pointless HDR. But there is bad art in all forms of art. It doesn't mean it isn't art.

Because a first grader scribbles the sun and stick figure representations of her family, is this not an artistic expression by her. Is it not art?

with that in mind, I suppose you could argue HDR was an art because there is generally some sort of artistic intent in choosing to use it, but I'd say that's pusing it.

It's not pushing it at all. Just like a painter envisions a scene, picks up his paint brush, and paints the canvas, a HDR photographer has his own artistic process to produce his/her art.

You could say that HDR is "an art" in the sense of it being something that isn't easy to accomplish and takes practice and skill, but I don't think that's what you're suggesting here... is it?

Done properly, HDR is a thorough artistic process. Hours can be spent on a single image. HDR at its best should be a well thought out image that takes vision and experience to capture; further, it requires technical skill and working knowledge of equipment and post production software.

All of the things we employ to make art are tools. No more, no less. Cameras, paint brushes, black and white, HDR... tools. To put it another way, no more is HDR art than a spoon is food. You may employ the spoon to make food. You may employ the HDR to make art. You may also employ the spoon to dig a ditch. You may also employ the HDR to make a mess of a picture of your friends badass Volkswagen.

This is a meandering and ambiguous point. A paintbrush is to the canvas is as a camera is to HDR images.

Tools to make the art. Not art itself.

If all these things are tools to make art, then they are by default artistic mediums. They are capable producing art, thus an image produced from the medium of a camera can be art.

Look, you're not even sure if you consider photography an art. Once you decide, let me know.

 

[manaheim]

Fine, HDR is art.

I'm gonna go live in my screwdriver. See ya.