New & Already Venting

[nycphotography]

Just post up the original on your site, plus your own edit. then add their version as "client directed editorial version". I'm assuming it was commercial work, so call their version "as published".

Everyone understands that you don't control how the client interprets commercial work once you're done with it.

 

[KmH]

+1 on pgriz's comments. The OP used some poor business practices which was a major part of the problem.
It is a good business practice to have a qualified attorney check to make sure your contract covers all the necessary bases.

From a legal perspective, there is no copyright release. Note that copyright law is federal law.

There is a copyright transfer.

Copyright is a bundle of rights. A photographer can retain all the rights to images they make while granting partial usage of copyright by someone else. The photographer can limit the allowed use in an astonishing variety of ways including limiting the length of time any usage privileges apply. The document that spells out those provisions is known as a use license. What a lot of retail photographers call a 'print release' is in fact a use license.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ01.pdf
Transfer of Copyright

Any or all of the copyright owner’s exclusive rights or any subdivision of those rights may be transferred, but the transfer of exclusive rights is not valid unless that transfer is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner’s duly authorized agent. Transfer of a right on a nonexclusive basis does not require a written agreement.

A copyright may also be conveyed by operation of law and may be bequeathed by will or pass as personal property by the applicable laws of intestate succession.Copyright is a personal property right, and it is subject to the various state laws and regulations that govern the owner*ship, inheritance, or transfer of personal property as well as terms of contracts or conduct of business. For information about relevant state laws, consult an attorney.

Transfers of copyright are normally made by contract. The Copyright Office does not have any forms for such transfers. The law does provide for the recordation in the Copyright Office of transfers of copyright ownership. Although recor*dation is not required to make a valid transfer between the parties, it does provide certain legal advantages and may be required to validate the transfer as against third parties. For
information on recordation of transfers and other docu*ments related to copyright, see Circular 12, Recordation of Transfers and Other Documents.

 

[Mully]

We have ll had the client from hell.... since you gave away the farm the cows go with it . I would walk away graciously and just suck it up, be glad it is over and say a prayer for the next victim.

 

[GypsieGlen]

I have worked for wealthy, influential people a lot and once in a while you get a lemon. My nature is to try to please a client no matter what. With the wrong client that is a recipe for disaster. It,s obvious you are not being compensated for your effort. You cannot sustain a business without a reasonable income for the time you spend. More importantly, for someone that takes pride in their work, the emotional toll is clearly not worth it. Be selective, find good clients, and treat them like gold (they may bring you more good clients). You will be happier, more creative, and ultimately make more money. I would explain to them that from your experience you feel that your style is not a good fit for them and you want them to be happy. Another option that many businesses use is a P.I.T.A. charge in their pricing (if I make this $$$ it is = to the grief). Just know going in they will not be happy, and it will be very stressfull, and make sure you are running your business not them.

 

[12sndsgood]

I would politly decline doing any work with them again. they liked your vision. but only liked one photo and then changed that one photo to how they wanted it. It's not worth your time and trouble to please these people.

 

[nycphotography]

EGADS, I just tread the rest of this and realized it's really spoiled rich people and not a commercial client.

In this case, either they pay your business rates, or they find someone else. And if no amount of money is worth the grief, then just explain that you were available because you were already going to be in the area on vacation, but that you can't really schedule time like that going forward.

If they "insist" you can "reluctantly" tell them what the (exorbitant) costs would be for you to do that. Or you can respectfully decline.

 

[Tamgerine]

A great deal has already been covered by others, but I think one of the major things that stand out to me in this case (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that you went out of your way to provide a service you did not already provide (photo compositing, major post-production and editing). You yourself said you had to spend hours learning how to do the new tasks in Photoshop. When they began requesting things that you don't normally offer as a business, why did you say you would do them? It seems like it caused you a lot of time and effort in the end for a poor result.

It is kind of hard to get the timeline of things right as well. It sounds to me like you took the photograph, and afterward they made these requests. If this is true you need to manage your client expectations better. Did you travel some 500 miles without knowing the end result of what the client wanted?

I assume you have a portfolio that they saw before hiring you. Why did they want something that was strikingly different than what you were already showcasing? Why did they love your vision, and then request something very different that it doesn't seem you do? What you produced should have been consistent with what you showcase. If they request something different, you should have shut that down right away. There are a lot of holes in this to me.

I live in NE but I am from CO so I "didn't mind" making the travel. I talked myself into thinking it was a vacation with family rather than work. ​

Also, I hope by "didn't mind" you mean that you were paid enough for your travel costs to not mind.

I don't know where you're at in your business, but I see a lot of people who get so attached to the idea that someone is paying them money for their work that they go into overdrive trying to please a client that wants this, and wants that, and extra this, and some of those, and by the time the job is over and done with the photographer is out time and money. The job ended up costing them.

Please remember that your time is valuable. The time you spent traveling to this job, the time you spent trying to learn new editing techniques, the time you spent on the phone with them. Your time is not free. Many people don't realize that they can spend time on things that bring them money. Anything you spend your time on means you can't spend that time on something else. What is in your best interest to spend your time on?

As for what you should do, I myself would not work with these clients. I'm not going to go out of my way to spend time learning new photoshop things for this specific client. I'm going to spend that valuable time on customers who want what I know how to do and already offer. ​

 

[Heitz]

Of course its also possible that no photographer within 500 miles of them would dare work with them. They had to go outside their sphere of crap to find someone who didn't know them.

 

[andywag]

"however I gave them a copyright"

why why why why why why?????? and again why did you
a. "give" them copyright
b. post this to complain about what they have done to a photo which YOU GAVE them the rights to do with whatever they want to do
?

Yes, Suck it up as a learning experience. Learn that if someone 500 miles away cannot find a photographer they like closer than you are that maybe that should raise a flag and learn not to give copyright away.
Also learn how to properly manage a client and client expectations.

 

[andywag]

Thank you all for your advice. I really messed up by giving them a copyright release rather than a print release. I was in the "overwhelmed, just please them mode." Yesterday they called me telling me they wanted a re-shoot free of charge. Right after that they wanted me to re-shoot their wedding photos, as they didn't like how the photog they hired shot their wedding three years ago. They "love" my vision. My heart is telling me to just deny the request politely and move on.

- Just read over my contract and unfortunately I never mention that they can not edit my photos :/ **Making up a new contract that is clearer.

Whatever your "heart" is saying, your head should be saying and very very loudly - "stay the heck away from this "client" "

What you need in your contract is that copyright remains and always will remain with you.

 

[CCericola]

You transferred copyrights to them so now it is their photo.
On a side note, this forum is pretty high ranking on google search and the business district is not private so if you talk smack about clients they can find out. Especially if you are using your real name or studio name.

 

[kathyt]

Don't EVER sell a copyright unless you will be making enough money to not give a s**t what they do with it. I would move on.

 

[KmH]

It is not clear that any copyrights were transfered, or sold.

 

[vfotog]

I don't think the pay is worth the headache. I will attach one of the photos I provided them. This photo was one that was laughed at (they literally made fun of it). I had to Google how to add flames for this session! (ps that is not my watermark on the photo I added their watermark for social media purposes (maybe this whole deal is messed up) However, I don't know if I am up to asking Google about how much more stuff I can add! Anyways I will include what I sent to them, along with a photo of what I originally produce, (portrait photography).View attachment 34420View attachment 34421

umm, if you really did give them the copyright, it's unlikely you have the right to publish that image here. reread the paperwork, and delete the image if necessary.

 

[NRP_Studios]

Thank you all for your feedback