new rule/suggestion for critique forum

[motcon]

one word:

objectivity.

if we each employ it, we foster a fun and learning environment.

 

[gmarquez]

"CRITIQUE IN A MATURE MANNER...critique without being an a*****e...attempt not to be offensive...objectivity."

One of the incidents that started this latest round was when someone asked " So lets hear it PERSPECTIVE/ or any other 2 cents you would like to throw in..", to which someone replied "The perspective in the first one is boring...it's just a straight forward shot." Quite a few people labeled this response "rude, unacceptable, etc."

For those asking for more civility in the critique forum, why was this remark offensive to you, and how should it have been rephrased to be "mature, un-a*****e-like, non-offensive, and objective"?:raisedbrow:

 

[newrmdmike]

wooops, it appears i've really stirred the pot here.

i agree people should be tactful, but at the same time i really do think many people take the criticism quite poorly in this forum. and on the other hand there are plenty of tactless critiques and comments. i think that when someone gets one of those comments they should just roll with it, not stir up trouble . . . it doesn't usually end well (i know i've stirred plenty) and it would probobly end a lot better if you just accept the critique, ignore it, or ask for more.

lafoto, i don't know what motcom is, please inform me.

i really like the sense of community on this forum, and perhaps i'm wrong in my suggestion. maybe it wouldn't work as well. i just know that in regards to my own work i enjoy all critiques and feel like i'm pretty good at letting them roll of my shoulders now, and that even harsh rude critiques can be of value to bettering myself. (but perhaps not to bettering the community)

 

[motcon]

lafoto, i don't know what motcom is, please inform me.

me...

 

[Alex_B]

one word:

objectivity.

sounds great ... but I am not capable of this.

for me objectivity might work when it comes to purely technical aspects, but that is it...

 

[Alex_B]

One of the incidents that started this latest round was when someone asked " So lets hear it PERSPECTIVE/ or any other 2 cents you would like to throw in..", to which someone replied "The perspective in the first one is boring...it's just a straight forward shot." Quite a few people labeled this response "rude, unacceptable, etc."

strange enough, I sometimes (not often though) critique like that, and it was never considered rude by anyone ... so maybe there is more to it but the actual wording? I always try to say something nice alongside with it I have to admit though.

 

[Alex_B]

alex u dnt hate me

I said let's pretend!

 

[LaFoto]

Sorry, motcon ... I had written motcon at first and then went :scratch: "with n or with m???" and changed to the m ... wrong --- oh well. You recognised yourself.

And yes, that's him I was talking about, Mike, our member motcon who sometimes takes out the time to write up the deepest critiques I have ever seen on this forum. It is a matter of "dedication", though, and he doesn't do that everyday and for every photo posted, he'd not have time for anything left in life if he did.

But his critique also adresses ALL the points that he feels need to be addressed, and he does not "smear honey round the OP's mouth", like we would say in my language, and still his lengthy, in-depth critiques don't rile anyone.

So there is a difference there, and that difference "makes all the difference", I think. Motcon certainly never intends to rile anyone and still speaks "the truth" (start a new thread on "What is 'the truth'", please! ). With some others I am just not so sure that only speaking their mind is what they want to do, with some I just suspect a more ulterior motive, too, sometimes, maybe, here and there, could be...

 

[mysteryscribe]

I think motcon does a great service with this very detailed critique and I mean absoulute no offense when I say this, but they could never offend me because I can't get through one. I just absolutely lose interest in this ten second sound bite, instant coffee world. I'm sorry to admit it but it is true and it makes me less of an artist for it. Still it is the truth.

I hope that the person who posted the picture is a better person than me and learns from it, but I just can't get through one of his long critiques. Possibly because I am an arogant prick.

 

[The_Traveler]

If you read accounts of critiques given by the great modern masters of photography, they have two distinct styles. One is extraordinarily brief, harsh criticism. The other is silence, or a form thereof. When shown a piece they don't like, they'll respond simply by looking and nodding, but not saying anything. Alternately, you might show a piece and get "I like this expression here..." but even with the best of work you wont get much more than "I think you can do something with this."

Perhaps when we have a great modern master of photography in residence, we could learn to accept rudeness along with received wisdom.

 

[mysteryscribe]

Lol Please tell me who the modern master is so I can avoid him like the plague..

 

[newrmdmike]

wow, motcon . . . i didn't make the connection at all for some reason with you . . . i don't know what happened there.

anyways, the point i intended in making was that rude critiques will inevitably be made, and instead of causing trouble on the forum we should let it roll of our shoulders. - - - and that we should be prepared to do so.
i'm not saying rude critiques are the best ones, but that we can sometimes take something away from them.

 

[Arch]

well here's how i see it. I do not agree with people just using expression like 'its boring'.... or 'this is poor'.....

These kinds of comments are NON-CONSTRUCTIVE and in a educational sense, worthless.

Im not saying people cant use expressions like this... but they should be followed by the word 'because...'

If you do not explain you objections to an image, you are not critiqing but more trolling... trying to cause arguement for the sake of it.

So, imo... no one should feel like they cant post in the critique forum becuase thay might be too sensitive.... the bottom line is, is that they should never be put in a position where they feel attcked for no reason.... or not given explination. It is threads like these where i have seen people get upset or annoyed... 9 times out of 10 if the person giving the critique is courteous, there isnt a personal problem.

However i do acknowledge that on occasion a newbie who isnt use to any type of critique can get offended when someone is just trying to be helpful.

So considering this is a forum open to all types of skill levels... it is of my opinion that the critique forum should be split in two. One section for the 'im new please help' photographer.... who maybe needs general advice on whether anything is working in thier images. And another section for people who are willing to take alot of criticism and not get easily offended.

This way, at least there is somewhere for both types of people to post... and if someone is getting offended easy, us mods can then just move them to the other section.

thoughts?

 

[newrmdmike]

arch-i think that would work, if others even feel a need for change. the current critique subtitle or whatever makes it pretty clear to me that its for a real critique. however, lots of newbs to the forum that are also photo newbs don't think they are. so what could you call them to get people to go to the right place? mods could move them, but if you name it carefully it might not be necessary. i think most of them expect general critique, but that belongs with galleries . . . hmmmmmm


there are already so many forum sections here that i'm not sure.

 

[abraxas]

...

So considering this is a forum open to all types of skill levels... it is of my opinion that the critique forum should be split in two. One section for the 'im new please help' photographer.... who maybe needs general advice on whether anything is working in thier images. And another section for people who are willing to take alot of criticism and not get easily offended.

...

thoughts?

Like;

Critique = finished works for critique
(I like motcon's list posted in one of these threads for guidelines for critics)

Critical Feedback = for help and mild critique

?

Here it is;

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http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80291
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most certainly. if and only if one considers the process and the product of photography as an art, then all guidelines of art apply. note the usage of the word 'guidelines'. where does one begin? by learning the fundamentals that important in these areas (the short list):

venter of interest

subject placement

simplicity

viewpoint and camera angle

balance

shapes and lines

pattern

volume

lighting

texture

tone

contrast

framing

foreground

background

perspective


if one considers it an art, then one must submit to their work being critiqued as art. if one states that photography is all subjective, then by default he/she participates in photography as a hobby.

I'm thinking "venter of interest," might be a typo? - Center of...?
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