New Site feature proposal - Encouraging our younger photographer members

[jhodges10]

Why don't we try asking the current younger members what they think would make TPF more "kid" friendly? I ask this because as a middle aged guy I'm on board with the no coddling, if they can't take the heat get out of the forum crowd. I can't see an 18 & under section bing very beneficial to the kids as photographers. I guess you could have a section where only kids could start a thread and the rest of us could comment or answer questions. The fact that it's a thread in the kids section should (but probably won't) be enough to keep the adults from being too harsh with the criticism.

 

[invisible]

Is it segregation if you're not keeping the kids in, but keeping the old people out?

I would only consider it 'segregation' if anyone under 18 was forced to post only to that area. If they were free to post anywhere (Ceptin' for the nudie section), then that would be fine with me.

The above sumarizes what I was thinking. Under-18 kids should be able to post wherever they want as usual, but the over-18 crowd would not be "allowed" in the teen galleries.

Sorry man but that makes no sense. The whole point is to get feedback from those that are better than you. Not to blow smoke but excellent photographers like yourself are why I joined in the first place. To not be able to get feedback from the masterclass would be a shame and dare I say a crime.

I was going to say "YOU'RE WRONG!" but then I saw the rest of the paragraph. You have great taste in photography (Thanks for the kind words. My answer is below's Bitter's quote.)

Is it segregation if you're not keeping the kids in, but keeping the old people out?

I would only consider it 'segregation' if anyone under 18 was forced to post only to that area. If they were free to post anywhere (Ceptin' for the nudie section), then that would be fine with me.

The above sumarizes what I was thinking. Under-18 kids should be able to post wherever they want as usual, but the over-18 crowd would not be "allowed" in the teen galleries.

That's fine.

But what does it accomplish?

Some people on this thread seem to assume that the under-18 crowd are in dire need of direction (technical or artistic) from the more experienced crowd. I don't agree. Check this out: Flickr: The Teenage Photographers Pool. This Flickr group was created by teens and for teens, and there are many other similar Flickr groups. As the photos show, some teens can rock with a camera too, while others are not so good. Teens also have a sensitivity that can be different from an adult's – in fact, they may or may not feel comfortable sharing certain images with us. This and similar Flickr groups exist because teen photographers enjoy being around and being inspired by other teen photographers, without the presence of old geezers like twenty-somethings and up.

I think it wouldn't harm to open an under-18 gallery and see how it goes. If it bombs, TPF can make believe it never happened. The question is, how can it bomb? The only reason I can think of is the lack of support from the under-18 crowd... but unless you actually open the gallery you won't know.

 

[runnah]

I've said my piece.

As a side note, I will be on board if we can have a "Divorced Cougars" section.

 

[runnah]

" "

I agree, but i guess I don't see why the age needs to be publicized. I am fairly new here and I don't know your age, or anyone else who doesn't have a self pic for an avatar. That is part of the fun of the medium, you don't have to tell people that you are certain age/race/gender/creed unless you want to.

 

[Derrel]

Recently we've had a short discussion behind the scenes about considering reaching out and promoting/helping/encouraging the younger members of our forum in their photographic interests. These would essentially be our "under 18s" photographers who at present, whilst we have some on the site, are mostly overlooked.


In the view toward promotion of photography and the community toward all segments who make use of the forum we are considering taking up an initiative to focus upon the younger members.

At present we've no fixed or formal idea as to how to approach this matter, we've some ideas (some of which I'll outline in short in a moment), but no actual firm plans. Thus to not only gauge the sites feelings on this matter (from both the old and the younger members) we are starting this thread. We greatly welcome your ideas on this matter in both general and specific terms. Be you old or young we'd be greatly interested in reading your ideas on how we can best approach this matter.


A few ideas we've had would include:
1) Use of the groups feature to form a specific under 18s group - sadly the practical side of using groups has shown that even popular ones die very fast and, with its current implementation, its at best a short term solution. Whilst its not off the cards, its something that would need a lot of dedication to make it work.

2) Addition of an under 18's "gallery and discussions" section. This would be more than just a gallery (in fact I'd like to remind users that the galleries we have here also serve as a discussion subsection for their specific topics) and would focus around giving the under 18's a specific section to socialise in and ask questions of the forum at large. Whilst this won't change what they can do already, its been noted that providing a specific subsection for an interest/group also serves to generate increased attention to that subject/focus and to attract more of a like mind to it.
Downside is that it is adding another subsection to the already large list we have on the site.



If you have more ideas or expansions on those suggested please chime in - we really want to get your feeling for this and if its worth approaching as an idea at all.

No offense intended overread, but the way your post reads, it sounds like you are addressing the troops the night before a suicide mission. The forecasted results you run through all sound dreadfully dismal. The resulting responses from multiple members make your OP sound about as attractive a concept as the proverbial "lead balloon".

I dunno...just based upon your own comments, it seems like this under-18 demographic is small, and you yourself hold out little hope that this demographic will find itself welcomed, or successful,or even significant here on TPF. In the USA, people under the age of 18 are in school for most of the day. Are we trying to encourage night-time posting, or are these kids supposed to post from their cell phones during school hours?

Honestly...it seems that an under-18 sub-category is unneeded. The way you yourself have pitched this idea makes it seem, no offense, like a guaranteed loser, before the start of the race. Who is behind this idea? Where is it coming from?

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Thanks for that response invisible. I see your point.

I also feel similar to runnah, though. *shrug*

 

[invisible]

No offense intended overread, but the way your post reads, it sounds like you are addressing the troops the night before a suicide mission. The forecasted results you run through all sound dreadfully dismal. The resulting responses from multiple members make your OP sound about as attractive a concept as the proverbial "lead balloon".

I dunno...just based upon your own comments, it seems like this under-18 demographic is small, and you yourself hold out little hope that this demographic will find itself welcomed, or successful,or even significant here on TPF. In the USA, people under the age of 18 are in school for most of the day. Are we trying to encourage night-time posting, or are these kids supposed to post from their cell phones during school hours?

Honestly...it seems that an under-18 sub-category is unneeded. The way you yourself have pitched this idea makes it seem, no offense, like a guaranteed loser, before the start of the race. Who is behind this idea? Where is it coming from?

No need to pull punches. Tell us how you really feel about the idea, man!

 

[ceeboy14]

Okay guys, I’m going to put in my two cents worth and while my former profession may have some bearing on how you respond, it is not meant to give it undue credence.

I was a high school photography teacher for 20 years. We did 35mm, 2 ¼, some 4x5, and a lot of pinhole and Holga stuff. In 2004 or so, I purchased a classroom set of Nikon D40’s and we merged the analog with the digital. Later I regressed a bit and went heavy on the alternative. The background is to tell you I never had a student drop the class because it was too hard. I never had a student cry during a critique and I was pretty straight forward yet, I never was harsh because it never served a purpose. Students in photography eat this stuff up. The really stoked ones shoot constantly and some of them do some pretty decent work…see photo below.

Students who are engaged in photography are generally the better kids at school. They are geeks on one side, artists on the other, and most quite grade driven. I will agree with anyone on here who says the kids today are needy and belong to that me-me generation. Okay, but that doesn’t make them stupid, nor does it make them too thin skinned to accept criticism.

That said, they will tend to argue a point and are prone to beating very dead horses in defense of works even they know aren’t up to par just to try to get an edge gradewise…ha, it never worked with me but they’d try it anyway. They’re kids, plain and simple.

I think if we gave students or young people a moniker which denoted them as students but let them peruse the forums at will, post at will and interact with the rest of the population at will, those of us older, more experienced could at least temper our responses a hair. Suggestion:

Sara Jane S S for student or Sara Jane B for beginner whether a student or not. It is segregation but only as far as how the rest of the forum interacts with them. At the end of a year, allow them to lose the tattoo of A or B and be among the rest of the English – or whatever.

Note: Some of the work shown is from other art classes as is reflected as drawings or paintings. They made us exhibit for the all county show in April so most of the really good stuff never made it downtown...

 

[Derrel]

No need to pull punches. Tell us how you really feel about the idea, man!

Not quite sure what you mean...but overread's introduction to this entire subject seemed very,very "odd", to say the least...like that of a man delivering very bad news...not a positive spin, in any way,shape, or form...almost as if he drew a short straw and was selected to deliver the suicide mission's details to the troops...I have read thousands of posts from overread--he is normally super-enthusiastic and very optimisitic about almost everything he approaches, but his OP today seemed...very odd to me.

 

[ceeboy14]

Oh, as to allowing access to nudity; nudity is acceptable on all AP (Advanced Placement) or AICE IGSE exams or portfolio presentations..there are limits but pretty much the same limits we put on the forum.

 

[invisible]

No need to pull punches. Tell us how you really feel about the idea, man!

Not quite sure what you mean...

I was just kidding. You basically pulverized the idea on the spot.

 

[Derrel]

Trial balloon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also: run it up the flagpole.

Pulverizing the idea on the spot was not my intention. I was just simply pointing out that a close reading of the OP reveals several negative characterizations of the possible new sub-section, and shows a very undecided approach, and not much information. I came to this thread late in the day. My comments reflect those of one coming into the discussion "late", and I just noticed that overread's initial post was somewhat negative, and seemed to me to reflect a very wishy-washy, "trial balloon" type of mind frame...

I think it's a good idea to try and encourage younger people in photography, even though many of them show open hostility to any type of C&C that is not fawning, and lately seem to flounce out of here quite irate, and spouting invective.

 

[Overread]

My intent was more to present the fact that there isn't an agreed upon action plan and that ideas we've already had did have some limitations. This was in order to hopefully encourage people to suggest their own ideas either working within the frame that were suggested or their own ideas. It's an idea in concept at this stage, so its fully open to debate as to if its worth going ahead with an in what direction(s) its taken in.



Also when it comes to an under 18s subsection my thought was that the under 18s could post new threads, whilst anyone could reply to them. We could create an under 18s user group and limit the section to only those members, but in my mind (whilst examples of full under 18 groups have shown good results on flickr in the examples above) we don't have a large enough population and, further, due to the nature of the site I would suspect many younger members joining would be after the input of some more senior photographers.


Another suggestion made has been that of mentioning (sorry I forget who suggested it) and its another area we could look into (building straight of the photography mentors section, which is going to get a bit of an attention focus in coming weeks to promote it again). My only quibble with mentoring is that its behind the scenes communication of a very direct nature and some parents might expect that if we were to put a focus or direct attention on it for the under 18s that there would be some protections in place. Sadly I don't think we've a setup to allow for that, which is why I favour more open community approaches (eg groups or a subsection or something else).

 

[ceeboy14]

Trial balloon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also: run it up the flagpole.


I think it's a good idea to try and encourage younger people in photography, even though many of them show open hostility to any type of C&C that is not fawning, and lately seem to flounce out of here quite irate, and spouting invective.

When I would get a student like that...and I did say no one ever dropped because it was too hard, I failed to mention if a student showed his tail in my class, I tossed his butt into the hallway. When, and if he came back and apologized to the class, he could be readimitted with th eunderstanding that kind of behavior would not be tolerated. If not, he went to Aerobics or choir and those were the only two choices.

Those who can't take criticism aren't ready for a forum...disappear them, promptly and decisively and it soon becomes apparent to the rest, this is serious stuff and we are serious people who are there to help (just don't let on we're really big softies and we can get away with this facade of being tough old serious folks...:mrgreen

 

[2fastlx]

Not to be the a$$ but myself and maybe others here also would appreciate an 18 and over only area. I have nothing against the younger crowd and I have a 14 yo and 11yo of my own. Sometimes the comments or suggestions made by the younger crowd frustrate me and it would be nice to have conversations with mature adults who do realize that life is tough and have real world knowledge and experience to share.