Newbie on food photography. What to buy?

[katerolla]

Bitter Jeweler is right

I wouldn’t go onto a cooking forum and start by saying help me become a chef because I'm sick of paying for your services you chefs.

 

[Luigi74]

I hate to agree with Bitter, but he's right. Food photography especially. Luis, if you really do care about your business and your food image, then you shouldn't worry about forking out some money to get a PRO to take some shots. If you go the diy route, you're just going to be devaluing your own worth for the first long while by taking crappy shots of good food. Photography isn't as simple as most people make it out to be, much the same cooking isn't as simple as people make it out to be. People will help you and give you suggestions on what gear to get, but it takes more than just gear to take a good picture. Especially of food.

That being said, I'd suggest pretty much what was said above.

Get a d90 or 50d (~$1000)
A long tilt shift lens (~$1000 to $2000)
At least one off camera flash and a sync method(~$150 and up bare minimum)
Make your own modifiers for now.

For 600-800 bucks, you can't get a whole lot if you want professional results. People say it isn't about the gear, but when it comes to "studio" shooting, it kinda does. Not necessarily the camera, but lenses and lights.

Good luck with your endeavours.

Hi Thanks for your reply...

I don't find in any of my words some kind of disregard or disrespect towards professional photographers, if I sounded arrogant, I apologize sincerely, I've taken several hobbiest that I get "just for fun" and I've turned them into almost a profession, and I know that it take YEARS to be competitive in any discipline, many hard working hours and several thousand dollars.

I got into target shooting with rifles "just for fun" and my first rig was $400 USD, but now that I can compete with the top guys, I have a 3k rifle and a 1K scope on top of it... It took me years to develop the skill and I have to pair it with the best equipment that I can afford... I know that eventually the same is going to happen with photography... I just want to get started now

I want to learn to take pics of my food, I know that to get decent results maybe I'll take a couple of years, and I'M STILL GOING TO HIRE THE AWESOME PHOTOGRAPHER THAT I HAVE, EVEN IF HE COST ME A D-90 PER SESSION... Maybe I'll have him for the rest of my life, or another photographer, but you know, at least once a week I do something new, and is too bad that I can't get nice pics of it... And by no means I'm wealthy enough to have $200-400 USD Mini-session with a professional photographer on a weekly basis.

But to not get OT... Thanks, I find your insight and advice usefull and now based on some replies I'm pointing towards an specific direction:thumbup:

 

[Sw1tchFX]

The studio i intern at does alot of food photography, if anyone here is familiar with Burgerville, we do all the photography for them. We shoot it on a Hasselblad H2D-22. The burgers are shot with a 50mm, everything else on a 120mm. The only reason we shot it on the Hassy is because we have one, and we can give the client absolute IQ.

Can you do exactly that? of course not. But you can get close, and you don't need no stinkin' tilt-shift lens.



Generally, if you look in publications with photos of some sort of food in them, you'll see that they're lit from the rear most of the time with the soft shadows going towards the camera.

You'll need at least two lights, with some sort of diffusion material. for example, you can have 2 medium-to-large softboxes, one in the rear, and one in the front dialed down a little, which will give you a pretty generic result like what's below. You shouldn't need more than 4. Speedlights are a great, cheap way to get prefect results.



Any DSLR will work. You can totally get a D3000, or a used D40/60 if you want, no need to spend more than you have to. in the studio, the only thing a D90 or 50D will give you are a coupla more megapixels, which when you're talking about 10-12, you won't see that in print. Not to mention you'll be shooting at ISO 100 anyway, so again, it's a moot point, really. Live view might be important, but at those short distances, it should be really easy to see where your focus is anyway.

You don't need a tilt-shift lens. anything 50mm (on 35mm format) or longer will do fine. just stop it down. Even the kit lenses should be fine honestly, because optically they're pretty good stopped down, it's just their construction is cheap, and they might not be the best wide open, and you're not going to shoot wide open hardly at all because there won't be enough DOF.




You probably know this, and i'm sure you can do alot towards it, but stylists...are worth their weight in gold. I learned that the hard way when i was working on shoe catalogs last year.



Just look at the Pillsbury flickr page, food photography is generally very formulaic, and often the hardest part is timing hot foods with the stylist.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pillsburyrecipes/

and some examples from their page:

 

[Fusion]

Well said !! eacemrgreen:

 

[kkamin]

I agree with Bitter Jeweler and understand sort of his knee jerk reaction towards the implied idea of 'I'll just buy a camera and some lights and do it myself'. Of course it can be done, but it's almost like saying, "I'll just buy a parka, an ice axe and some cramp-ons and go climb Everest".

I have been a chef for fifteen years; I've been the executive chef at three restaurants. I have been a visual artist for longer; I have a Bachelor's of Fine Arts degree with a degree in filmmaking and an emphasis in photography. I feel I have a little bit of insight into your situation.

You just need to know you are embarking on a long journey and it will be sometime before you can produce publication worthy images. Photography is an extremely difficult medium to work in, and I am not talking about mastering the technical. I feel the technical is the backbone of the art but only contributes about 5% to the actual image making. (this 5% will take years for most to understand fully and master) The other 95% is the conceptual or creative. The ability to create compelling and engaging photos. Anne Lebowitz isn't paid for her camera and grip package, she is paid for her ideas and visions, and ability to execute them. A skilled food specialist could shoot a plate of food in the right found lighting location, using tin foil as a reflector, with a disposable camera and could post-process it in something ridiculous like Microsoft Word and still produce a compelling image.

If you are a full-time chef, I don't know how much time you have to devote to becoming a professional food photographer. I think you should do it. You should like you are interested in it. But if it is a hobby, you need to be somewhat realistic on what it is going to take to get there and if it is going to be a viable option for the restaurant anytime soon. Just like executing an amazing coursed dinner for a room of 50, it took years of working with the ingredients and processes in countless situations and conditions before you could start to internalize an understanding of the nature of your craft.

 

[Village Idiot]

A Tilt Shift lens would be very helpful to you in food photography. You can get a good one from $1,200-$2,200.

You'll probably want an off camera flash or two, so that's another $200-$500 a piece.

It would be nice to have a reliable remote trigger system as well, so tack on another $250-$500.

If you buy a camera body with a kit lens, such as a Canon XSi, you're looking at $600-800.

The kit lens is pretty soft, and soon you will want sharper images, so the next lens could be anywhere from $500 and up into the thousands.

By the way, I want to be a chef, so could you give me some great recipes, and tips on how to cook, so I don't have to pay resaurants to feed me, when I can do it myself, just as easily, and cheaper?

You don't need all that or anything that expensive. Lighting is the most important part. A digital rebel 300D with a 50mm f/1.8 II would work just as well as a more expensive camera and lens.

A set of Vivitars which are $95 new (or used flashes work just as well), along with a set of PCB Cyber syncs ($190 for a set of one transmitter and two receivers) or cheaper Cactus triggers (Less than $100 for a transmitter and two receivers) with stands, umbrellas, and umbrellas adapters would all work fine.

The difference between him doing the photography himself and using cheap equipment and DIY materials and a pro doing it, it no one is going to see his equipment. They're only going to see the final outcome and that's what's important.

I'm far from a professional chef with my actual on the job cooking experience as the few days I would fill in for a missing line cook at Bob Evans when I was 16, yet I managed to cook and plate this:



And despite the fact that I was using a 5D MKII, 24-70 f/2.8L, 580EX II, and Pocket Wizard PIIs; I'm pretty sure that I could replicated it almost perfectly with my 30D, the 18-55 kit lens, and he Vivitar 285V's I have.

Equipment matters at some point, but for certain things, you can get professional looking photography without having to spend thousands and thousands of dollars.

 

[Village Idiot]

Hi everybody...

I'm a food photographer wannabe... I don't even have a decent camera, and here's where I need your help. I'm new in this forum, but not new at internet forums at all, based on my experience on that , I'll try to be specific to get the best advice from you.

MY GOAL: To be able to take GREAT food pictures,I'm a chef and I have to hire a proffesional photograper several times a year to get images for my menu, and advertising on my restaurant, now I want to do it myself.

THE FORMAT: Digital.

MY BUDGET: 600-800 USD.

I'll like to get the best camera for that money, the fancy lenses, and nice lightning equipment will come later. Now what I'm looking for , is a nice camera for that job, with a basic lens that can do the task properly and also the basic lightning equipment. I don't mind to go DIY in the lightbox, or maybe to get a very basic umbrella set. I think that most of my resources must go into the camera, wich in the future I can upgrade with nice lenses of specialized flashes.

Best regards and all your info will be very appreciated

Lighting is going to be the most important part of food photography. You can buy a great camera and a great lens, but without lighting, it can turn out bland and not so appetizing. Here's a group on Flickr for professional looking food photography. There's a thread in the discussion with setup photos of hoe photographers are acheiving their photos. Check that out for an idea.

Flickr: Professional looking food photography

 

[Village Idiot]

I agree with Bitter Jeweler and understand sort of his knee jerk reaction towards the implied idea of 'I'll just buy a camera and some lights and do it myself'. Of course it can be done, but it's almost like saying, "I'll just buy a parka, an ice axe and some cramp-ons and go climb Everest".

No it's not. There's really a very smal risk of dying while operating a DSLR, and that would probably be associated with frustrations of sticking a fork in a socket when you can't get the right photo.

Plus, being a food photographer doesn't take much physical prowess. If you're smart enough to be a good chef, you should have the wits about you to do photography. It is similar after all; science and asthetics mixed together with a bit of intuition? This has to be cooked(exposed) for this amount of time with just the perfect amount of this ingredient(lighting) added and the plated(posed) to get the perfect shot.

Your anaolgies are extreme. They're almost comical. They really don't help you in making a point that you don't think that some one new to photographer can't pick it up and with a bit of learning figure out enough to get the shots they want.

Hell, my friend has had his used 30D($385 pay pal'ed and shipped from POTN) since last week. From just hanging out around me and listening he's got a decent grasp on how everything works in manual mode and we were even playing with lighting on Friday. He's a chef too and he bought his camera to take food shots. Albeit, I'm donating a set of Vivitars and a kit lens to him, he's on the road to being able to take the photos he wants without a $1000 camera, $1200 lens, multiple $250-$500 lights, and $300 worth of radio triggers.

 

[manicmike]

You know, I kind of agree with Bitter. Someone comes in asking a bunch of vague questions with obviously no research done, wanting to take his own pictures for his menu so he doesn't have to pay someone else.

Photography can easily cost thousands of dollars, so you really won't save money. Just pay someone to take some awesome food photos.

There got it in the right thread this time.

 

[Village Idiot]

You know, I kind of agree with Bitter. Someone comes in asking a bunch of vague questions with obviously no research done, wanting to take his own pictures for his menu so he doesn't have to pay someone else.

Photography can easily cost thousands of dollars, so you really won't save money. Just pay someone to take some awesome food photos.

There got it in the right thread this time.

There are some high end food photography businesses that charges thousands for a day's worth of work. I wouldn't do local restaurants for less than $500 for a full day's work.

 

[kkamin]

And despite the fact that I was using a 5D MKII, 24-70 f/2.8L, 580EX II, and Pocket Wizard PIIs; I'm pretty sure that I could replicated it almost perfectly with my 30D, the 18-55 kit lens, and he Vivitar 285V's I have.

With all due respect. If you posted this to the ASMPFood Listserv for a crit they would rip you a new one. This illustrative image you are using for what can be achieved is very far from an image of professional practice in my humble opinion.

1. There are tiny bits of tuna flaking off all over.
2. The yellow sauce has visual connotations to poo
3. The thin black sauce is too thin in spots and creates a dirty looking film.
4. The pink paste in the back is doing the same thing and doesn't look that appetizing.
5. The plate looks like something out of Grandma's cupboard and pairs poorly with a modern seared tuna dish
6. Overall the colors don't harmonize well. I would make modifications to the yellow sauce to bring down it's saturation. It's competing for too much attention with the main attraction: the tuna.
7. The composition could be stronger
8. The overall image is low in contrast.

I know you are really proud of your image, that is why you shared it. And I'm sure people on Flickr, your friends, and people on forums said "nice job". But it is not something you could charge money for. IMO, you need a stylist working with you, a more precise looking product, and better lighting and framing.

 

[Village Idiot]

And despite the fact that I was using a 5D MKII, 24-70 f/2.8L, 580EX II, and Pocket Wizard PIIs; I'm pretty sure that I could replicated it almost perfectly with my 30D, the 18-55 kit lens, and he Vivitar 285V's I have.

With all due respect. If you posted this to the ASMPFood Listserv for a crit they would rip you a new one. This illustrative image you are using for what can be achieved is very far from an image of professional practice in my humble opinion.

1. There are tiny bits of tuna flaking off all over.
2. The yellow sauce has visual connotations to poo
3. The thin black sauce is too thin in spots and creates a dirty looking film.
4. The pink paste in the back is doing the same thing and doesn't look that appetizing.
5. The plate looks like something out of Grandma's cupboard and pairs poorly with a modern seared tuna dish
6. Overall the colors don't harmonize well. I would make modifications to the yellow sauce to bring down it's saturation. It's competing for too much attention with the main attraction: the tuna.
7. The composition could be stronger
8. The overall image is low in contrast.

I know you are really proud of your image, that is why you shared it. And I'm sure people on Flickr, your friends, and people on forums said "nice job". But it is not something you could charge money for. IMO, you need a stylist working with you, a more precise looking product, and better lighting and framing.

For that shot, no. This was something that was done in all of 2 minutes with one flash in an island in the kitchen, but with the right time and setup, it wouldn't be a problem. It's just to point out that you don't need $3,000 worth of equipment to get that shot you're looking for.

 

[kkamin]

I agree with Bitter Jeweler and understand sort of his knee jerk reaction towards the implied idea of 'I'll just buy a camera and some lights and do it myself'. Of course it can be done, but it's almost like saying, "I'll just buy a parka, an ice axe and some cramp-ons and go climb Everest".

No it's not. There's really a very smal risk of dying while operating a DSLR, and that would probably be associated with frustrations of sticking a fork in a socket when you can't get the right photo.

Plus, being a food photographer doesn't take much physical prowess. If you're smart enough to be a good chef, you should have the wits about you to do photography. It is similar after all; science and asthetics mixed together with a bit of intuition? This has to be cooked(exposed) for this amount of time with just the perfect amount of this ingredient(lighting) added and the plated(posed) to get the perfect shot.

You are sorting of missing the heart of the analogy I was making. Of course I am not comparing the physical dangers of photography to climbing the highest mountain in the world. I was comparing the amount of work it would take to do either. It is a rather sensationalist analogy but I thought most would understand rather easily what I was driving at.

All the arts share commonalities. You are right. A lot of formal art schooling requires students to learn a variety of disciplines the first year or so in attendance, in order to understand that. The shared properties are important to recognize and will help someone work in another medium, but in all reality, it might put someone only a mile ahead in a 100 mile race. They still need to learn all the technical stuff: from shooting with a camera and lenses and understanding how light works -- to post-processing: color management, workflow issues, image processing and retouching. Then the huge part, figuring out how to translate reality in to a 2D medium and create a compelling, engaging, and artistic image that works for its designed commercial purpose. Panning a light 1 degree in any direction or framing the camera 1 mm in any direction can dramatically alter the perceived intent of a photograph. Anyone who has been anal with the crop bounding box in PS, by constantly tweaking its borders until it is just right, knows this. There are color theory skills that must be developed. Then creativity in the medium must be expanded. They will have to work in the medium for a considerable time, trying out many ideas and looking at others work in order to "get the junk out" in order to start creating something that sings. etc. etc. etc.

Maybe he can pick it up in a month. I don't know. But personally if someone asked me to be a graphic designer on a professional level, I would realize I had a long road ahead before I was a functioning proficient artist in that medium.

Again, I think he should do it. It sounds like he is interested in it. And once he gets into it, some of his early stuff might be good enough to use. But to rely on that path for the restaurant in the short term might not be realistic.

 

[gsgary]

A Tilt Shift lens would be very helpful to you in food photography. You can get a good one from $1,200-$2,200.

You'll probably want an off camera flash or two, so that's another $200-$500 a piece.

It would be nice to have a reliable remote trigger system as well, so tack on another $250-$500.

If you buy a camera body with a kit lens, such as a Canon XSi, you're looking at $600-800.

The kit lens is pretty soft, and soon you will want sharper images, so the next lens could be anywhere from $500 and up into the thousands.

By the way, I want to be a chef, so could you give me some great recipes, and tips on how to cook, so I don't have to pay resaurants to feed me, when I can do it myself, just as easily, and cheaper?

Hi Bitter Jeweler...

Easy... Go to epicurious.com or watch the food network, you'll find lots of information, just by following the easy recipes and free advice, you'll be cooking nice meals very soon,you'll be a good home cook quick and easy, and if you see that you really want to be chef but in a budget, get a part time job at a restaurant as a cook help and you'll learn a lot, not spending money, actually you'll make a few bucks while you learn... And after that, if you see that your really enjoy proffesional cooking, you can get promoted to cook, then to sous chef and within some years you'll be a chef... Or if you have the money, you can go to the culinary institut of america and that will shorten your learning curve.

You see how easy I could answer your question without being rude?... Next time don't bother, I can't care less about your sarcasm or bitterness as your nickname suggest, if I were a newbie in the forums scene, it will be very discouraging to be answered on my first question by a jerk , but since I spend quite a few hours in the internet, I know that the democracy of the web has a price to be paid... Dealing with the bitter, the narrow minded, the angry and the know-it-all.

Have a nice day.

Luis

Bitter wasn't being a jerk he was being honest, i'm sorry but you are being the jerk if you think you can get pro shots for $600-$800

Over here no good restuarant has pictures on menu's the only places that have them are places that serve crap like Mc Donalds, Burger King, Subway
Gordon Ramsay would burn them

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Gsgary, he back pedaled. He isn't looking to replace the pro, as his first post suggests. He's looking to getting into it for fun, right now. Which changes everything, except that I am the jerk.

After researching Tilt-Shift lenses, I have seen what amazing things can be done with them, and many examples were food. To poo-poo it, is pretty ignorant. Of course it's not absolutely needed. It would be hugely beneficial. Also comparing shots with a Hasslebad, verses something like an XSi and kit lense is pretty funny.