Newbie questions

[georgienne]

I'm brand new to shooting film and have a couple (probably) dead-easy questions for someone/all of you.

I've experience using DSLRs, but mostly it was just mindless fiddling around, or I used auto-focus, etc. I now have an AE-1, which I'm loving, but I honestly have no idea how to know what my image will look like. I've read everything I can find on the internet and flipped through several books, but I can't find a 'process' to take photos on an SLR..
The extent of my knowledge on composure is that exposure is related to the f and the shutter speed. I get that if one goes down, the other goes up (though I'm not sure how this translates on the camera). I've also read about the sunny 16 rule thing.
Now, I currently have ISO 400 colour film in (both because it was recommended as good beginner film, and because I'm not shooting exclusively dark or bright things), so my 'sunny 16' shutter is 500 (correct?). However, whenever I set this up, my TTL light meter gets upset and says its underexposed. I've done this in several lightings, and nothing seems to help, so I've now concluded that I've NO idea how to read the AE-1's light meter (its different from the scale of bars that some(/most?) SLRs and my DSLR have --- diagram here).

So, my questions are:

1. How do I read the light meter? What am I looking for, what's my goal? When I change the shutter speed and f, what am I looking for it to change if not just to get it out of the underexposure zone?
2. What steps should I be doing to ensure a fairly good exposure? Currently I'm just estimating my distance, setting my focus ring at that estimate, picking a shutter speed based on (my undereducated) estimate of light, then looking at the light meter and matching the aperture ring to what the light meter says. How off am I??

All help and info is much appreciated.
I wish I could afford to take a proper class, and everything I find online is all digital. I have shot 3 rolls of film already (writing down details I think are important), so I'm hoping they might be useful to learn from/compare when I get them back. I've also bought B&W film, as I've bee told its more forgiving, and I think it'd be a fun change anyway.

Again, thank you!

 

[minicoop1985]

Here's my question. In my Olympus OM-1n, I replaced the mercury battery with an alkaline or li-ion (don't remember which), which causes the meter to show about two stops underexposed when I've got it right. Did you replace the battery in your camera? My experience was throwing two rolls through my OM to figure out how accurate that meter is, and I imagine you'll have to do the same (unless someone else can tell you something more).

 

[PJL]

First thing is to make sure you have the ISO set on the camera. Then you pick a shutter speed and the camera will recommend an aperture to you for correct exposure. It sounds like you have the process down. If you just get an arrow pointing up or down, it means your shutter speed is too fast or slow for the given light to get proper exposure. Setting the aperture ring to "A" is the same as setting your DSLR to shutter priority mode.

If you want to completely remove the guess work, buy an external light meter.

 

[cgw]

Start here if you've not read it:

Canon AE-1 instruction manual, user manual, PDF manual, free manuals

 

[georgienne]

Did you replace the battery in your camera? My experience was throwing two rolls through my OM to figure out how accurate that meter is, and I imagine you'll have to do the same (unless someone else can tell you something more).

I definitely should have mentioned that, yes, I have replaced the battery. I'm not sure how accurate it is though, as I don't know how to read it.
As I'm not really sure what I'm looking for, I'm just getting my 'test rolls' for comparitive use: so taking the same shot, changing the f each time, so I get a visual (if any) of how/what the f does. I'm hoping it may help me learn a little (otherwise it was a waste of $30..).

Once I learn how to use the meter, I'll compare it to one I can get for my iPhone and see how far off it is.

 

[georgienne]

First thing is to make sure you have the ISO set on the camera. Then you pick a shutter speed and the camera will recommend an aperture to you for correct exposure. It sounds like you have the process down. If you just get an arrow pointing up or down, it means your shutter speed is too fast or slow for the given light to get proper exposure.

Thank you!

Okay, so ISO (film speed) > shutter speed > match aperture to light meter's suggestion?
Am I right to be just adjusting the shutter speed to my estimate of the lighting, or is there something more/specific I should be doing? I don't have a tripod, so the lowest I've gone with my shutter is 30 (though I haven't seen the results yet, so they could be horrible), so I automatically use 30 or 60 for darker shots (then a higher f): I'm I doing this right?
Also, when the light meter's upset, is it generally best to change the shutter or f, of are they both the same effect? What if changing neither moves the needle much; is it just a case that my film isn't right for that particular lighting/shot, but another film would be?

 

[PJL]

Handheld, without any sort of image stabilization or flash, you generally want your shutter speed value to be equal to or higher than your focal length. If you're shooting the stock 50 f/1.8, slowest you should be going without a tripod is 1/60. Below that you can still get sharp images, but not as consistently.

You can also think of shutter speed with aperture in mind depending on the effect you want to get. For example, if you're set on 1/60 and it's giving you f/8, but you really want shallow depth of field to make your subject pop from the background, bring your shutter speed up to 1/250 to get that aperture open to f/4. All shutter speed adjustments on an AE-1 are done in full stop increments.

You should do some research on the difference between shutter speed, which solely affects the duration that light is being let into the camera, and aperture, which affects the amount of light let in, but also the amount of the picture that will be in focus. For correct exposure, a faster shutter speed will always need a smaller f stop value and vice versa, but the choice you make will ultimately change how the final photograph looks.

 

[georgienne]

Handheld, without any sort of image stabilization or flash, you generally want your shutter speed value to be equal to or higher than your focal length. If you're shooting the stock 50 f/1.8, slowest you should be going without a tripod is 1/60. Below that you can still get sharp images, but not as consistently.

All shutter speed adjustments on an AE-1 are done in full stop increments.

I'd forgotten about focal length and the DoF; thanks, I think I've got it now.

Now, when you say full stops, you mean (example going from 1.8f to 2.8f, because the f ring seems to allow me to line it up (and it clicks) between the offered f numbers; so these would be half-stops? So, where I can't move my shutter speed in half-stops, my f should be moved in full-stops to complement it?

 

[PJL]

Generally speaking, yes, if you're going solely by the camera's meter. That gives aperture figures in full stops only. The exception is that it will tell you f/2 in certain situations, which is an in-between setting on your aperture ring.

 

[georgienne]

Start here if you've not read it:

Canon AE-1 instruction manual, user manual, PDF manual, free manuals

Thanks, I had seen the part I but not the part II.
Do you have an AE-1? I'm wondering where exactly the film starts: does it start when the window shows the orange 0 or at the 1? I always assumed the window showed how many shots you had already taken, not the shot you were on -- I may have been miscounting my shots this whole time..

 

[georgienne]

Generally speaking, yes, if you're going solely by the camera's meter. That gives aperture figures in full stops only. The exception is that it will tell you f/2 in certain situations, which is an in-between setting on your aperture ring.

Got it! Thanks a bunch!

 

[PJL]

Start here if you've not read it:

Canon AE-1 instruction manual, user manual, PDF manual, free manuals

Thanks, I had seen the part I but not the part II.
Do you have an AE-1? I'm wondering where exactly the film starts: does it start when the window shows the orange 0 or at the 1? I always assumed the window showed how many shots you had already taken, not the shot you were on -- I may have been miscounting my shots this whole time..

The window shows you what frame you're currently on. The ones that count down (how many you have left) are the ones that wind out the whole roll right after you load them, but those are the later EOS models.

 

[limr]

Light can be deceiving at times. Sunny 16 starting points are for bright midday sun. If you have ISO 400, then yes, the shutter speed would be 1/500 and the aperture would be at f16. That's a pretty closed down aperture. If your lens only goes to f16, then you're essentially at its smallest setting (it might go to f32.) I don't know if the AE-1 has a 1/1000 shutter speed or not, but lets say it doesn't. Let's also say that your lens only goes to f16. This means that the starting point for your Sunny 16 settings has your camera allowing the least amount of light possible. if you are NOT standing outside around 1pm on a sunny day, then you won't have enough light for those settings, which is going to bother your light meter. If you have less light, then you'd need to compensate with a lower shutter speed, a wider aperture, or a combination of both.

As I said, light can be deceiving. Sometimes the sun might look bright enough to require your Sunny 16 settings, but in fact, there might be much less light than you think. For example, many times at sundown, the sun might seem almost blindingly bright, but Sunny 16 settings will result in underexposure. The angle of the light fools you into thinking it's brighter than it really is. And to make things just slightly more complicated, it also depends on where you are in the world. I know people in the UK who refer to the Sunny 11 instead of 16 because even at midday in summer, the sun is at a low enough angle that f16 is too small, so they need to stop up to f11.

Indoor light is even trickier. Even if a room is brightly lit, there's a lot less light available to your camera than you might think. So you'll have to move even farther away from your Sunny 16 settings. If you're set at 1/500 on the shutter and indoors, then your camera will have to move to the larger apertures to compensate. If you have a lens that doesn't open up too far (f3.5 is a common maximum aperture) then the camera won't have many options - and again, you have an angry light meter. Slowing the shutter will allow more light in and take some of the burden off the aperture to provide all the light needed.

Here's a great explanation that has a really useful exposure chart at the end: Ultimate Exposure Computer It's kind of long and some of it might be a bit overwhelming at first - it was to me the first time I read it but I keep it bookmarked and re-read it every once in a while; it makes a little more sense every time I go back to it. Hope it helps.

 

[timor]

I am watching this thread and shake my head. I have a feeling, that OP so far was only taking advantage of handicap of computers in digital cameras. Apparently there is a little understanding of how the camera works. Maybe instead of jumping to film and expecting the same easy handling will be better, as cgw pointed, to hit the books. It's not that much to get thru, only 150 years of accumulated knowledge which for sure will be beneficial not only to OP's film photography, but also to his digital picture taking.
For starters link to a library which offers first 10 downloads free:
Download books "Arts & Photography - Photography". Ebook library Bookos.org
Good luck.

 

[Light Guru]

How do I read the light meter?

Well that's going to vary depending on the light meter.

What am I looking for, what's my goal?

That's not a question others can answer for you. What you look for in a photograph or what your goal in making a photo is COMPLETELY up to you.

When I change the shutter speed and f, what am I looking for it to change if not just to get it out of the underexposure zone?

You are looking for a combination of shutter speed and aperture that the effects of aperture and shutter speed that you want in the image and give you a proper exposure.

I wish I could afford to take a proper class, and everything I find online is all digital.

So exposure is the same, shooting digital or film does not change how light works.

Honestly to me it sounds like you REALY need to understand the fundamentals. Things like how does aperture and shutter speed effect the image, and definitely study up on the exposure triangle.