Presenting unedited SOOC pics to clients

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

You also have to consider your camera. A D3X is going to have much better on camera processing than a D5000. So for the pros printing on site, you have to consider their gear as well. If they have sharper lenses with better color contrast ( as well as the camera having better color overall ) they don't need as much post process sharpening and saturation and color adjustment. If they have a great eye for composition they probably strive to avoid cropping, and they most likely set custom WB. So you have to make sure you are comparing things completely before you just say "well so and so did it" so it will work just as well for me.

 

[SabrinaO]

I would never send them sooc images...lol. What I do is upload the sooc or lightly edited images on my site in their own gallery and they'll choose which ones they like.

You want to put unedited images in a client gallery that they will share the password with their friends? Are you willing to have potential clients see unedited work and think those are the final product?That is what is going to happen.

Sigh... I'm so torn. If you look on my site under proofs you will see I basically put "the gallery they are about to view is unedited... and pics will be finalized once they make their selection"I thought that would be enough... maybe not?

 

[Derrel]

If you wish to show SOOC JPEG images, then the best course of action is to set the sharpening in-camera to HIGH, crank the saturation up to 3/4 of maximum, and set the Tone Curve to be fairly contrasty. By doing this, the images coming right off the memory card are already quite "snappy" and vibrant. If your skill level is decent and your lighting good and your exposures are excellent, SOOC images are fine as proofs.

This sounds good, but if I do this will the pics be over processed or too sharp/saturated/contrasty for the finalized images? I mean since I shoot in raw I'd be able to tone all that down for the finalized non pics right?

YES, the RAW images will still be quite malleable--it is only the in-camera created JPEG images that will be "juiced". Some people on here really ought to STFU--their opinions are worthless because they have no fricking idea what they are talking about with regard to the consumer Nikons like the D5000. If you set the image style to Direct Print or to Vivid and shoot RAW + JPEG, you'll have "proofs" ready to go, right out of the camera. The consumer-oriented Nikons have very punchy SOOC images when the various pre-sets are activated. It doesn't make sense to process images that clients do not want. One of **THE** most-critical things to do is to GET THE WHITE BALANCE SET RIGHT, so that the SOOC JPEGs look GOOD!!! If you want to show JPEGS SOOC, the white balance needs to be one that produces a pleasant image.

 

[g-fi]

My clients don't choose what photos I will present to them for print purchasing. I do. I'm not a big box store photographer, I'm not a JcPenney's photographer, I don't make my money by charging 80 clients $50 for pics on a CD. My clients choose me because they like the pictures I make. They like my style, which is MY STYLE, and my taste in picking photos to be presented.

I think that's all there is to say. I really have no desire to explain what a successful photography BUSINESS MODEL means when it comes to how much time you spend editing photos and how much you are being paid per hour for your time to someone who is so consistently rude to those who are actually helping them. You give your photos away on a CD for a pittance and don't even try to convert your sales to prints, albums, or canvases. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. Even Wal-Mart knows better.

 

[g-fi]

Are we SURE this isn't Jane Momtographer?

 

[gsgary]

You can "soft edit" in LR. That is what I've been doing. and then anything I think needs more work like cloning if I'm shooting outside or if I feel in them mood to liquify a flabby arm or gut, I'll pull it into PS.

But I'd never show them a SOOC image. nope.

How many times have i ****ing mentioned this

 

[gsgary]

You completely misunderstood gsgary, he does on the spot event photography and gets that good a shot out of the camera. Makes cash on the spot. You on the otherhand do not provide the quality sooc. I would edit those I felt worthy. A customer expects every shot to be a winner because you are the pro, we know they're not but do you want to disappoint your customer by showing them the ones that are oof, motion blur or just mistakes as you skim through the hundred. Really how many keepers do you have right now sooc perfect? They know some treatment will be done but this much? Really? Do you will really want to show them how bad you can be at times.
By editing those worthy then presenting to customer you show them perfection, your image quailty goes up and stays up.

I only do that at events, any others they will not see them straight out of camera because they will be shot in raw

 

[gsgary]

You completely misunderstood gsgary, he does on the spot event photography and gets that good a shot out of the camera. Makes cash on the spot. You on the otherhand do not provide the quality sooc. I would edit those I felt worthy. A customer expects every shot to be a winner because you are the pro, we know they're not but do you want to disappoint your customer by showing them the ones that are oof, motion blur or just mistakes as you skim through the hundred. Really how many keepers do you have right now sooc perfect? They know some treatment will be done but this much? Really? Do you will really want to show them how bad you can be at times. By editing those worthy then presenting to customer you show them perfection, your image quailty goes up and stays up.

None are absolutely perfect for me sooc because I shoot raw and I think you HAVE to edit raws. I like contrast, and I like to do those special edits as I stated earlier. SOOCs can be perfectly exposed, perfect WB etc. but still look... blah. I just like to add enhancements and pop to a photo that a camera cannot do.

You have just answered your question again

 

[RauschPhotography]

Oh boy. Sorry, but I skipped everything aside from the OP. Here's my opinion: I wouldn't show them the SOOC pictures. When I show my clients my work, it's going to be the complete, edited set. If they want to see a few on my camera after the shoot, awesome. I don't mind doing that, but I don't want to show them full-res, unedited work in its entirety.

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Some people on here really ought to STFU--their opinions are worthless because they have no fricking idea what they are talking about with regard to the consumer Nikons like the D5000.

Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but given that it was just after my post, I will assume that it is.. I never said that the D5000 isn't capable of decent jpegs as proofs, I was arguing the misleading notion that just because many pros print on site, that this must mean that its a wise thing to do and that anyone can do it with a D5000 and limited skill set ( not meant to be a dig at the OP )

Besides, its a free world, you can show people whatever the hell you want. Snap some test shots with your iphone and give your customers those. Its your business and its your call. I think the OP has been given some honest feedback from both sides of the spectrum, so there isn't much sense in debating it into the ground, it now boils down to the OP making a decision. There are pros and cons of any decision.

PROS: less work, less time consuming
CONS: potential to harm reputation, potential to drive away customers.

Also, keep in mind that people usually would prefer not to know the truth. What I mean by that is, when you shoot someone with a bad complexion or whatever that needs some blemish removal, showing them the unedited ( even if processed in camera but no skin smoothing or cloning/healing done to blemishes) and telling them "I will remove the blemishes, can be not only insulting, but upsetting to the customer. It is much better for them to see the finished photo and feel happy, not realizing that you actually toned down their flaws a bit. That customer is going to go away thinking you are great, not because your composition was good and your colors popped, but because you made them look good. I mean at the end of the day, isn't that what portrait photography is all about?

 

[SabrinaO]

My clients don't choose what photos I will present to them for print purchasing. I do. I'm not a big box store photographer, I'm not a JcPenney's photographer, I don't make my money by charging 80 clients $50 for pics on a CD. My clients choose me because they like the pictures I make. They like my style, which is MY STYLE, and my taste in picking photos to be presented.

I think that's all there is to say. I really have no desire to explain what a successful photography BUSINESS MODEL means when it comes to how much time you spend editing photos and how much you are being paid per hour for your time to someone who is so consistently rude to those who are actually helping them. You give your photos away on a CD for a pittance and don't even try to convert your sales to prints, albums, or canvases. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. Even Wal-Mart knows better.

Was this directed at me? Because I havent been rude to anyone except the person who relentlessly tries to turn my threads to drama. Look at his first response. I get this attitude in all of my posts from him.
Anyways.. i understand what you mean and I am rethinking everything. I would love to upsell and i dont see that happening if the first thing they see is drab unedited pics.

 

[brandibell]

I was just wondering to the posters who choose which photos to give to clients do you ever have the client ask about why certain photos weren't edited or to see the rest and so on? Or do you edit every single photo then let the client pick a set amount and give them prints or images on a disc?

Like I previously said I let my clients choose the images then edit them but I do a light edit first (never SOOC) and then the chosen photos I do skin touch ups, B&W etc etc. But after reading a lot of the post there are some really good points as to why that might not be the most business savvy way to go about it.

 

[g-fi]

Was this directed at me? Because I havent been rude to anyone except the person who relentlessly tries to turn my threads to drama. Look at his first response. I get this attitude in all of my posts from him.
Anyways.. i understand what you mean and I am rethinking everything. I would love to upsell and i dont see that happening if the first thing they see is drab unedited pics.

Yes this was directed at you. Yes, I have read your threads where you are incapable of taking constructive criticism from those who are trying to help you. No, I am not interested in arguing with you, or helping you build your business any further. You've had a ton of free business and photography technique advice, and you rarely, if ever, say thank you to those who take their time out to help you and seem to refuse to block those who you claim are targeting you, choosing instead to argue with them back and forth and back and forth AND BACK AND FORTH until your threads devolve into ridiculous name calling and yet you seem to not understand how ridiculous it makes YOU look. The only reason I responded to this thread in the first place was to hopefully provide others who are gawking at your trainwreck with my approach to proofing with my clients and maybe it will convince someone down the road to look at their photography as a BUSINESS and to consider why giving away pictures on a CD is a bad idea, and why showing your clients an unfinished product hurts your bottom line. I really could not care less if you succeed in your business. I'm not a business or photography guru, but I certainly won't spend more than 10 minutes giving away GOOD free advice to someone who is incapable of acting like a professional.

 

[g-fi]

I was just wondering to the posters who choose which photos to give to clients do you ever have the client ask about why certain photos weren't edited or to see the rest and so on? Or do you edit every single photo then let the client pick a set amount and give them prints or images on a disc?

My contract with the client states that they will be presented x number of images to select prints from, and that I will choose what photos will be presented. I have had clients ask about shots that they don't see when we proof, and my response is always that I've selected images that I feel present them in the best, most flattering way. I don't edit every photo that I take, but I also don't take a crazy amount of photos during a session (the only exception to this is a newborn shoot when I may take hundreds of photos in order to have enough to clone together a certain shot). Clients do not see all of their shots, they do not see unedited shots, and since I don't give away CDs for free, they don't get to "pick" what pictures go on a CD. If a client chooses to purchase a CD, it will contain all of the edited shots that I have chosen.

I guess I just don't get this "let the client pick their shots" thing, certainly clients should be choosing what images they want FOR THEIR PRINTS, or albums, or canvases, but I feel like I only want clients who are prepared to spend their money with me because they love what I do, and my taste, and are willing to let me do what I do best, and who are happy with the end result. My contract states that I am willing to work with a client to produce shots of their choice, but that I will retain creative control of MY WORK. You don't go to a Coach store and ask them to sell you a Louis Vuitton. Photography as a business is hard enough when you're doing what you want to do, when you hand all the control over to the client to dictate to you what you're going to do, or shoot, or edit, you're literally taking money out of your own pocket. *shrugs* Maybe I just don't get it. But I also don't give away CDs to my clients, so maybe that's where I get confused in all of this.

 

[Gaerek]

Was this directed at me? Because I havent been rude to anyone except the person who relentlessly tries to turn my threads to drama. Look at his first response. I get this attitude in all of my posts from him.

Was this directed at me? Because I wasn't rude to you ever, until you decided to get defensive when I gave you good advice that didn't match up to how you thought the world (and your camera, and small businesses, in general) worked. You relentlessly turn your nose down on great advice you get from people who know FAR more about this industry than you do, while at the same time taking advice from people who have only had their camera for a month. Look at my first response. I've tried giving you good advice in the past, and I'd get attacked for it. So I thought I'd give you bad advice, and I didn't get a response. Pretty telling, really. Just remember, it was your emotions and your attitude first. Get it right next time you attempt to bring me up.