Processing critique - too much, too little, or????/

[tirediron]

I was recently contacted by a young fellow for whom I'd done an MM TFP shoot a few months back saying that he did not like the processing of some of the images I shot. He's an aspiring male model (16 at time of shooting) and he said that the felt that the images were not processed enough, and they didn't show him to best advantage.

My personal philosphy on this sort of thing is that enough is usually too much, that is: I do not want to turn models in Ken or Barbie (but, I understand that some people like that look). So, looking at the image again, I can see a couple of dark skin patches near his elbow, and two pimple-like shadows, one on his upper cheek and another on his chin. Aside from those couple of points, what is your opinion of the processing of the image in terms of too much, too little, etc? What, where should I have gone with this?

 

[Mully]

I think it needs to be a little more open so it does not look muddy

 

[Lmphotos]

I thought agencies wanted pictures with very little post processing so they knew what they were getting? Basically I am thinking he wants the ken look which I would think would turn off future jobs for him...

 

[pixmedic]

for an aspiring male model, he doesn't have his "look" down very well. his facial expression is dry, almost angry looking (he looks aloof). shirt is wrinkled, and the hands look awkward.

processing wise? I think it looks fine as a B&W. I "see" the spots you are talking about, but i really don't think they detract from the image enough to say they needed to be processed more. otherwise you start making him look "fake"...
so what? hes 16 and some child prodigy on model processing? does he want more smoothing? ALL blemishes gone? I think he would be even less impressed with a way over processed image. he said it needed "more processing", but did he explain exactly he felt needed to be changed?

personally? me and the wife think it is processed just fine.
your mileage may vary. his obviously did.

 

[tirediron]

I think it needs to be a little more open so it does not look muddy.

He was after a "dark, moody" look which is why I went where I did with the conversion.

I thought agencies wanted pictures with very little post processing so they knew what they were getting? Basically I am thinking he wants the ken look which I would think would turn off future jobs for him...

The limited amount of "real" work I have done in this area does seem to support that.

for an aspiring male model, he doesn't have his "look" down very well. his facial expression is dry, almost angry looking (he looks aloof). shirt is wrinkled, and the hands look awkward.
processing wise? I think it looks fine as a B&W. I "see" the spots you are talking about, but i really don't think they detract from the image enough to say they needed to be processed more. otherwise you start making him look "fake"...
so what? hes 16 and some child prodigy on model processing? does he want more smoothing? ALL blemishes gone? I think he would be even less impressed with a way over processed image. he said it needed "more processing", but did he explain exactly he felt needed to be changed?

personally? me and the wife think it is processed just fine. your mileage may vary. his obviously did.

Thanks! 100% agree with you PM; he wants to be a model, but I'm not sure he really understands much about the industry. That said, he is only 16, and has lots of time, BUT my overall impression after shooting for two hours was that he didn't really know enough to know what he wanted or needed.

 

[frommrstomommy]

do you have any others to share from the session?

 

[nycphotography]

So he's 16 and wants to be a model, and you're supposed to make it happen by reprocessing his images to his taste?

He needs to understand that nobody, and I do mean nobody, in this business even begins to care what he wants.

If he wants to be a model, he needs to get out there and shoot. and shoot. and shoot. He needs that every photographer has a different view of the world. He needs 10 keeps backed by 30-40 filler shots from 10 different shoots w/ 5 different photographers. He really needs double that.. eventually.

And then let a booking agent pick the shots for the portfolio that the booking agent wants to show to the booking agents clients. Every booking agent will have a different set of clients, different niche, different look. Each should have a different portfolio presented in a different way. And none of that can be predicted or catered to in advance.

If nobody want to shoot with him? Guess he better focus on schoolwork.

If nobody want to represent him? Guess he better focus on schoolwork.

But reprocessing this image won't get him even 1mm closer to where he wants to go. Doing another shoot, might.

But... do YOU want to shoot with him again?

 

[tirediron]

do you have any others to share from the session?

Not right now, no.

So he's 16 and wants to be a model, and you're supposed to make it happen by reprocessing his images to his taste?

He needs to understand that nobody, and I do mean nobody, in this business even begins to care what he wants.

If he wants to be a model, he needs to get out there and shoot. and shoot. and shoot. He needs that every photographer has a different view of the world. He needs 10 keeps backed by 30-40 filler shots from 10 different shoots w/ 5 different photographers. He really needs double that.. eventually.

And then let a booking agent pick the shots for the portfolio that the booking agent wants to show to the booking agents clients. Every booking agent will have a different set of clients, different niche, different look. Each should have a different portfolio presented in a different way. And none of that can be predicted or catered to in advance.

If nobody want to shoot with him? Guess he better focus on schoolwork.

If nobody want to represent him? Guess he better focus on schoolwork.

But reprocessing this image won't get him even 1mm closer to where he wants to go. Doing another shoot, might.
But... do YOU want to shoot with him again?

Couldn't agree with you more on all of those points! I use these sorts of shoots for two things. One, to allow me to work on different techniques, lighting, etc, and the other in for exactly this sort of thing, to get more practice in dealing with "unknown" situations. I put out a casting call on MM which basically says, "I'll shoot you in my studio, but you have to have a plan, and you can't tell me what the plan is 'til you get there".

If we can work out a time when I'm not busy with something actually productive, I'll probably shoot with him again, simply because I love a challenge.

At the end of the day, my question remains though: Was the level of "vanity" processing I applied to the image appropriate, or not?

 

[nycphotography]

At the end of the day, my question remains though: Was the level of "vanity" processing I applied to the image appropriate, or not?

Absolutely, because it was what YOU felt was best (only because / so long as it wasn't flawed in some other way)

 

[Derrel]

I would crop some off of the left hand edge, to place his eyes a bit better within the frame, and maybe lighten it up some. Not sure what he expected, but since he is young, perhaps he expected something "modern", like textures, or a gimmicky border effect, or cross-processing effects, and so on. all while of course, being dark and moody too!!!

 

[The_Traveler]

Looking at the original, it looks like the light was as much on his shoulder as his face and his expression was uncommitted.

 

[tirediron]

Absolutely, because it was what YOU felt was best (only because / so long as it wasn't flawed in some other way)

Does this really hold true in this situation? This is afterall, essentially a collaborative effort, and the model should have some input into the final appearance.

I would crop some off of the left hand edge, to place his eyes a bit better within the frame, and maybe lighten it up some.

Good points; noted.

Not sure what he expected, but since he is young, perhaps he expected something "modern", like textures, or a gimmicky border effect, or cross-processing effects, and so on. all while of course, being dark and moody too!!!

A big part of the problem was that he didn't know what he wanted; we spent a lot of time with me showing him differnt looks and giving him suggestions, but he couldn't seem to articulate what he wanted besides "moody" and "edgy", which really don't mean a lot.

Looking at the original, it looks like the light was as much on his shoulder as his face and his expression was uncommitted.

I was trying to get 'angry' out of him; I think my direction was, "You've just seen your girlfriend kissing some other guy..." That was the best we got.

 

[amolitor]

"Dark and moody" isn't actually this dark. There's tons of black in "dark and moody" but the highlights should pop, you're looking for massive contrast, big dark shadows, and fairly hard light. At least, that's what the phrase means to *me*.

 

[nycphotography]

Absolutely, because it was what YOU felt was best (only because / so long as it wasn't flawed in some other way)

Does this really hold true in this situation? This is afterall, essentially a collaborative effort, and the model should have some input into the final appearance.

Months later? absolutely. he's more then welcome to take it to a retoucher. Or he can reshoot it with someone else. your obligation to him was fulfilled months ago.

 

[Vtec44]

As far as the technical aspect is concern, IMHO, your highlights do not pop on top of there's only dark gray and no real black in that picture. Also, the lighting is a bit harsh and his head blends into the background too much. It doesn't work with the lighting since the shadows don't seem to be dark enough to get into playing with negative space and shapes. There is more than one way to skin a can, try playing with the lighting and let it spill onto the background, to use it as a background separation.