Proud of Myself - Declined A Low Paying Gig

[imagemaker46]

Good for you, nice to hear that someone takes a real interest in how photography really works. As for the darkroom post production, I used to spot out dust with a brush and ink, using a real airbrush was an art. So the difference in retouching then and using photoshop, can't even compare the two. There was post production but it wasn't as simple as the click of a mouse.

 

[ClickAddict]

............doesn't matter if it's a friend of the family, and aunt or uncle, if they own a camera people will settle for that now. The average person doesn't care about quality, they don't know a great photo from a happy snap,.........

Here's the issue. In business there's a simple concept called Supply and Demand. You've just said that some/many clients don't care about getting your quality work, they are ok with the average Joe. The question is did the photographer buying a camera lessen someone's perception of what high quality was? Do seeing 1000s of bad-mediocre pictures make one less appreciate the high quality ones? Or was there simply no demand truly there in the first place? If the first cars that ever came out were high end Rolls Royce, sure people would buy it was the only thing out there. But start throwing in some low end Fords and the market for the Rolls will erode. Does that mean people never wanted ford quality cars before?

My point is, that perhaps rather than looking at it as the new guy lowering the market to something below what it should be for a quality product, could it be that these photographers actually found out what customers really wanted (either intentionaly or by accident) rather than supplying a more costly product than the customer can even appreciate? (You did say they can't tell the difference)
Some people will still want the Rolls for it's quality, but others simlpy want to get from point A to point B. Props go to the guys who get them what they want.

 

[epatsellis]

One of the prime motivators, pre Photoshop, to getting it right in camera was the excessive cost of retouching commercial work (think hundreds of dolars per hour, and a week or better turnaround). Once you learn to get it right in camera, you will never go back, period. In some ways, digital has helped me to explore options that previously would have been too expensive, but now are just a few clicks of the mouse.

Film still has it's place for me, especially when looking at long exposures or night work, though my stock of 4x5 film is slowly diminishing, I still process and print everything in house, both optically and digitally. Gladly transparencies are a thing of the past, as C41 films have such tremendous latitude for overexposure (essential for night work) and a contrast mask can bring that detail back into the reproduction range of paper.

 

[epatsellis]

Also, I've noticed a disturbing trend, at least in my part of the country.
Commercial work (and really any creative work) is priced in two parts, the creative fee and the licensing.
Why have so many suddenly just given up on licensing images?
You own the copyright to the image at the moment of creation and legally can control how it is reproduced, under what terms, etc.

 

[MichiganFarts]

I read through all that, and I still didn't see through the flame fest, what the job was that the OP turned down. If I was paid $1000 for a gig. I've worked 60 hour weeks for less money before lol...

 

[ghache]

haha right, I mean, if he turned down 700-800$ to do that job that he could have done in 1 day it was probably a hell of a job

 

[Robin Usagani]

I've seen photographers that have been doing this forever (own a studio and charge a lot of weddings) that have horrible wedding portfolio! I know for sure I can produce better pictures than he/she can. I think all that matters is portfolio. Yes, I am guilty of cutting prices because I need a couple of weddings for my portfolio and sample mount flush albums.

 

[MichiganFarts]

I've seen photographers that have been doing this forever (own a studio and charge a lot of weddings) that have horrible wedding portfolio! I know for sure I can produce better pictures than he/she can. I think all that matters is portfolio. Yes, I am guilty of cutting prices because I need a couple of weddings for my portfolio and sample mount flush albums.

Heck, I've been undercutting professionals since my dad let me use his old lawnmower.

 

[vinith98]

I feel that you did the right thing, if you feel that your doing the gig at a rate which is way less in your opinion then you have a complete right to decline it. What was shoot for though ?

 

[imagemaker46]

The bottom line is that anyone can charge or ask whatever they want. If someone is asking $10,000 a day to shoot they may not be getting much work, but if that's what they believe they are worth, then great, if someone believes they are worth more than a $1000 a day and turn down $750, they can walk with their head held high because they believed that they are worth more, what they end up with is not working one day and not making any money. I'd rather have the $750 in my pocket.

I ask $20,000 to shoot weddings, I don't like shooting weddings. I have never been paid $20,000 to shoot a wedding, I have only ever shot 3 weddings in 35 years and didn't even come close to that number. Who knows one day someone might say sure. I could probably do a pretty good job, but not as good as someone that has been shooting weddings for 35 years.

In my area of experience I know what the market will hold as far as a fee, but that changes depending on the client, being flexable will get you more work, and small paying shoots still add up.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

ghache,
I think you would find, were you to look, a small group of us here on TPF that have, in fact, been making it full time for at least a decade or two. And over that time, seeing a decline in quality and expectations is what we're talking about. Never mind explaining to a client about licensing fees, creative costs, etc. There's a sense of entitlement by new photographers I've never seen before, as if they don't have to work their way up anymore. (maybe because they think they can buy their way to being a professional)

I spent nearly a year loading film holders and doing general grip work before I even got close to a camera. And even today, my "creativity" is surpassed by the art director's "vision" and my job is to help him portray that vision. Sometimes you can advise and they will accept that advice, other times, it's not even an option. That is what commercial photography at the level I work at is, and I suspect a few of the others here as well.

WOW!

What a load of BS! I spent even longer than you doing grunt work with commercial photogs and that was after 12 years of a very successful career as a PJ. I just had to learn about commercial work. I was a punk about it. And so were you once upon a time, no matter what you think. If I had an even smaller violin to play for you than I had intended to play for the OP, I would play it now.

Mind you, from the few times you actually show up on the forum, I think you know what you are talking about technically but this post is BS.

3 decades and still going. Stronger than ever actually in spite of the 8 year (or there about) hiatus.

There has been a decline in quality expectation all over the place. Not just photography. I am a music freak and I have watched the expectation of music quality go up and down in such a weird way that I get a headache from it.

Photography, like just about everything else, is about business first. We are reminded of that here on the forum often enough. I have mentioned more than a few times that I am not the best photog but I have a certain business sense and that keeps me going. Or should I say, that got me started again.

Of course that's kind of forgetting the relationships I've built over the years, Yes, I'm an old fart.

And very happy about it.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Good for you, nice to hear that someone takes a real interest in how photography really works. As for the darkroom post production, I used to spot out dust with a brush and ink, using a real airbrush was an art. So the difference in retouching then and using photoshop, can't even compare the two. There was post production but it wasn't as simple as the click of a mouse.

Yeah, so did I, and it never involved an airbrush.

Either use the right words or shut up.

 

[imagemaker46]

Using what right words? an airbrush? You're saying that professional re-touchers never used airbrushes and ink to remove larger areas of photographs? I'll hold off saying anything until I understand what you meant by "the right words"

 

[Rocan]

photography isn't my profession; I'm GOOD at it, but I would not accept money for it as I wouldn't feel comfortable undercutting the price of the guys who do it for a living. So far I've had about three serious assignments; The most serious of them being the one I'm currently assigned to do, producing about 20 pictures that will be made into large prints and showcased in my highschools hallway. rather then accept money for the work (it is a substantial amount of editing as the location I have to shoot in has the worst lighting imaginable), I only ask for them to cover the cost of prints. That way I can sharpen my skills and when the time comes that I feel comfortable being paid for my work, I can charge a proper amount.

Being a mechanic, however, I have often simply told people "no." When you begin dropping prices, people tell their friends about the amazing deal they got, and you get stuck being underpaid. When you are a professional (truly are; in a way that you can do everything you want with your tools without even thinking twice about it) people come to you because you can do it better then the other guy.

Your time is worth what you charge for it. what seems like a little bit of work to us seems like an impossible task for the people paying you to do it; if it wasnt, they wouldn't be paying you to do it.

 

[imagemaker46]

Rocan, what you said about dropping prices and then people telling people what an amazing deal they got is absolultely true, and once the word is out, it really is hard to put prices up.