Question to those who moved from crop sensor to full frame camera-low light Perf

Derrel · Aug 2, 2014

Yesterday I reviewed my very last two month's worth of Canon 5D classic landscapes I shot back with Majeed on several 2012 shooting outings, and then went right into the first of my D3x outings. The difference in scene dynamic range was immediate. I actually kind of cringed when I reviewed some of the shoots done with the 5D under wide-DR outdoor conditions. It was really an eye-opener. I was just simply able to "extract more" from the Nikon raw files than from the Canon files, using the same version of Lightroom. Going wayyyy back to my early 2000's images from the D1 and D1h and Fuji S2 Pro, I was shocked at how "small" and low-resolution the files actually were. Been doing a major retrospective highlight archive of the last 13 years, and it has been interesting to me to see how FAR we have come with d-slr image quality since the D1 at 2.7MP on DX.

Derrel · Aug 2, 2014

ruifo said:
With time passing, many more people are getting to the conclusion that the D810 is a bigger upgrade from the D800/E than originally though/perceived. The new sensor, the new Expeed 4, the new 64 native ISO, and the new buffer are doing a lot of improvements.

LOW ISO capability is actually a good feature for flash in daylight, and for studio flash. I have a lot of older studio flash gear that is very powerful, so I find myself using Low 0.5 or Low 0.7 and even Low 1.0 a lot on the D2x for just casual set-ups using 150 Watt-seconds and an old Speedotron Brown Line that does not go down very low with just a single flash head attached to the power pack. When we used to shoot ISO 25 or 64 slide film a 1600 or 2400 Watt-second pack made sense: when Nikon d-slr went to a base ISO level of 200, that stuff became a PITA to use. Now that "overpowering the sun" with flash outdoors is popular technique, the lowering of the ISO capability is a welcome addition for many fashionista/editorial/lifestyle types. It also allows for 2/3, 1/2 and 0.0 bracketing by ISO with flash on critical set-ups.

One of the big problems for flash shooters is that many 200- and 300- and 400-Watt-second monolights are "too powerful" when the ISO is at 100 or 200. And at close rnage, even a 150 W-s monolight at full power can be too much. Kodak's 14n full-framer used to offer an ISO with a lowest value of 6. As in ISO "six". Not a lot of need for heavy neutral density filtering when the camera can crawl down to ISO 6.

480sparky · Aug 2, 2014

Derrel said:
........ Kodak's 14n full-framer used to offer an ISO with a lowest value of 6. As in ISO "six". Not a lot of need for heavy neutral density filtering when the camera can crawl down to ISO 6.

I'd give my left........ um......... 'family jewel'........ for a D8x0-class DSLR with that capability.

astroNikon · Aug 2, 2014

a couple more quick tests - using a tripod this time.
SOOC

f/4
shutter = 1/200
auto ISO = Hi-2

f/4
auto Shutter = 1/20
auto ISO = Hi-2

============
d7000
f/4
Shutter = 1/200
Auto ISO = Hi-2

f/4
Auto Shutter = 1/15
Auto ISO = Hi-2

goodguy · Aug 2, 2014

Thank you all for the informative replies, after I got my D7100 I saw how a good camera should work and I didnt feel the need to upgrade the body, I did though upgraded all my lenses and today I have lenses I feel very happy with so for the short while I am happy.
For me flexebility is important, most my shots done hand held thus I need to keep a minimum shutter speed to prevent camera shake, just came back few days ago from a family trip in Israel (yes I know perfect timing ha ? LOL) and many of my pictures were taken in 6400iso, the noise is not very high but the moment I crop the picture or do some adjustments on the RAW file the noise just jumps right into my face so I do very limited adjustment to keep the noise level to minimum possible, I really would love to get a camera that can give me better low light performance but I am not sure if one stop would really be so much, not really enough for me to let my beloved D7100 go. 1.5 too 2 stops would be a deal breaker, for that I would run to the next camera.
D810 is curently out of my range and the D610 isnt a whole lot better then the D7100 and in other things (like AF system) its actually behind so that not an option for me BUT when the D610 will be replaced I will definitly be checking that camera very, very careful for a potential upgrade.
I know it will not happened anytime soon but thats ok, I have my trusted D7100 with me for now

slackercruster · Aug 2, 2014

From my crop Fuji X to a Leica M240 was nothing for me. Really I prefer the Fuji sensor. But the Leica has great manual controls which I prefer to Fuji.

greybeard · Aug 2, 2014

I personally am waiting for a D7K with expeed - 4.

ruifo · Aug 2, 2014

Or look for a D800/D800E, new or refurbshed.

Their price is starting to drop in the grey market, and that's a sign of opportunity, once there are still new, almost new, and refurbished cameras out there.

And have a look in the Nikon DF, the "cheapest" low light king of nowadays.

hamlet · Aug 3, 2014

goodguy said:
Thank you all for the informative replies, after I got my D7100 I saw how a good camera should work and I didnt feel the need to upgrade the body, I did though upgraded all my lenses and today I have lenses I feel very happy with so for the short while I am happy.
For me flexebility is important, most my shots done hand held thus I need to keep a minimum shutter speed to prevent camera shake, just came back few days ago from a family trip in Israel (yes I know perfect timing ha ? LOL) and many of my pictures were taken in 6400iso, the noise is not very high but the moment I crop the picture or do some adjustments on the RAW file the noise just jumps right into my face so I do very limited adjustment to keep the noise level to minimum possible, I really would love to get a camera that can give me better low light performance but I am not sure if one stop would really be so much, not really enough for me to let my beloved D7100 go. 1.5 too 2 stops would be a deal breaker, for that I would run to the next camera.
D810 is curently out of my range and the D610 isnt a whole lot better then the D7100 and in other things (like AF system) its actually behind so that not an option for me BUT when the D610 will be replaced I will definitly be checking that camera very, very careful for a potential upgrade.
I know it will not happened anytime soon but thats ok, I have my trusted D7100 with me for now

Well the d800 handles low light incredibly well, why not get that?

goodguy · Aug 3, 2014

hamlet said:
goodguy said:

Well the d800 handles low light incredibly well, why not get that?

Click to expand...

Because I simply cant afford it

greybeard · Aug 3, 2014

For the pure question of low light performance, from everything I have read from Dx0 etc. The D610 and D800 are 1.2 stops better and the Df is at 1.4 stops faster.

astroNikon · Aug 3, 2014

goodguy said:
hamlet said:

goodguy said:

Well the d800 handles low light incredibly well, why not get that?

Click to expand...

Because I simply cant afford it

Click to expand...

Neither could I.
Thus I bought a refurb'd d600 for a only a couple hundred more than a new d7100.

Also the Nikon d7000 uses the Expeed 2 processor.
The d600 (& d7100) uses the Expeed 3, which is the same as in the d4 and d800s with a 12 channel sensor interface. I don't know how many channels the other cameras have for fast processing but it sounds good to me.
Expeed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

coastalconn · Aug 3, 2014

I had the opportunity to shoot a D3S today. Great camera, super fast and responsive with a great buffer, but it would not work for me. The resolution is just too low..
This is with the D3S.. Nearly 100% crop 3 MP

Osprey Comparison shot to D7100 by krisinct- Thanks for 2! Million + views!, on Flickr
This is with the D7100 About 50% crop 9 MP The ISO was actually twice as high on the D7100 (1100 vs 560 on the D3S, I wasn't in the exact same spot)

Osprey comparison shot to D3S by krisinct- Thanks for 2! Million + views!, on Flickr

The speed was pretty sweet though..

Osprey Take-off 1 by krisinct- Thanks for 2! Million + views!, on Flickr

Osprey Take-off 2 by krisinct- Thanks for 2! Million + views!, on Flickr

Osprey Take-off 3 by krisinct- Thanks for 2! Million + views!, on Flickr

So for now it will be the D7100. Hopefully next month will bring a new DX king...