Regarding Supposed TPF Bullies and Abuse Towards Newbies

[manaheim]

I hear ya. I'll repeat that I see no abuse here either. It really does seem to be the inflated egos of those who still have much to learn in this craft/hobby/profession that cry abuse when there really is no justification for it.

If there is abuse happening though (now, in the past, or in the future), it is my position (even though as you claim my perspective is limited) that we have to be together on the topic of bullying. Not just here in this forum but elsewhere as well. It came to my attention through this thread (silly as you may say it is, I will still believe it was an important discussion to bring to the table) there is still a long way to go to convince ourselves of our own power to change the world. Maybe I cannot predict the color of next years fashion or ... maybe I can influence it along with others. If one person makes a stand and others join in, then perhaps change will occur. To convince ourselves there is little we can do individually is almost the same as saying the word "can't". That's the banned word in the computer lab I ran for seven years. People could cuss if need be as long as it was not overt and unwarranted but they would get a talking to for saying "can't". I don't like self-defeatism if I can help it.

Oh god you used the "b word".

The whole planet needs to grow up. People suck. They're in competition with you for resources of all kinds and if you are a weaker fish you're the one whose gonna get picked on and eventually eaten. Expecting people not to be jerks is to deny evolution. Sharpen your stick and fight back.

Seriously this whole thread is just a cry for attention. Somebody lock it before I barf.

 

[AgentDrex]

I HATE rabbits!!!

been waiting for Br'er Rabbit to chime in!
totally agree here. BUT, there is still the issue (which is brought up regularly) of giving "proper" critique.
the difference between saying "your lighting sucks" and "you need fill light to get rid of shadows, try a flash with a diffuser" is hugely different. Often times, just that little courtesy would stop an otherwise "flame" thread in its tracks. usually however, people seem either unwilling, or unable to give at least halfway decent critique. and strictly in MY dumba$$ opinion....if your ability to critique is limited to "your lighting sucks" or, "that crop sucks", you really should just refrain from commenting at all, and let someone what CAN actually C&C get in there and help before the whole thread burns.

Sure, but again... Try to change it. I once came up with the idea of The Pact. Some people still have it in their sig. The idea was to establish a framework for behavior for requesters and commenters, and to get enough people to put it in their sig that it was constantly in everyone's face... Really the only way to even hope to bend a culture this large short of brute-force moderation... Which isn't TPFs MO.

The result? Hoo boy.

Lots of people got behind it, but a lot of people raised up pitchforks and torches and demanded my head. You wanna see abuse? Go look up THAT thread. I've never seen such vitriol here- before or since.

In other words, nothing you can do about it because it's mob rule and the average intelligence and wisdom of any mob is something north of a kumquat.

All this silly whining by noobs is frankly equalled only by threads that elevate it by saying "we must do something!!!". I see that now. I didn't then.

The funny thing about champions is that they're really easy targets for slung feces up on those nice white chargers.

Thank you for being Frank but SHIRLEY you don't mean I have elevated the whining by making a discussion of bullying? Is not the point of discussions to come to some sort of concession? What do we do about bullying then (here at TPF which is apparently slim to non-existent and out there where it seems to be rampant)? Or did I become confused as to the meaning behind that line you wrote that I bolded?

 

[shents]

This thread...

You got copyright to that image, meeester???

Please don't quote copyright violations! Oh D*MN IT.

ANOTHER ONE OF MY VIOLATIONS FIRST WEEK!!

Was going to post a link or photographers name someone blocked it before I had chance to put link let alone fart!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

This thread...

You got copyright to that image, meeester???

It's the pot stirring meme?.

 

[manaheim]

Thank you for being Frank but SHIRLEY you don't mean I have elevated the whining by making a discussion of bullying? Is not the point of discussions to come to some sort of concession? What do we do about bullying then (here at TPF which is apparently slim to non-existent and out there where it seems to be rampant)? Or did I become confused as to the meaning behind that line your wrote that I bolded?

I mean EXACTLY that. You got it.

You might as well start yelling "WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN??!!".

There's no bullying here. Not even close. That's a super-charged term, particularly these days... And everyone loves to throw is around to add false weight to their arguments. It's silly.

 

[amolitor]

I only see one person whining in this thread..

 

[manaheim]

I only see one person whining in this thread..

I call bullying!!!!!!!!

 

[amolitor]

kill da Wabbit.. Kill da WABbit!

 

[manaheim]

kill da Wabbit.. Kill da WABbit!

You would have LOVED The Pact.

 

[AgentDrex]

I hear ya. I'll repeat that I see no abuse here either. It really does seem to be the inflated egos of those who still have much to learn in this craft/hobby/profession that cry abuse when there really is no justification for it.

If there is abuse happening though (now, in the past, or in the future), it is my position (even though as you claim my perspective is limited) that we have to be together on the topic of bullying. Not just here in this forum but elsewhere as well. It came to my attention through this thread (silly as you may say it is, I will still believe it was an important discussion to bring to the table) there is still a long way to go to convince ourselves of our own power to change the world. Maybe I cannot predict the color of next years fashion or ... maybe I can influence it along with others. If one person makes a stand and others join in, then perhaps change will occur. To convince ourselves there is little we can do individually is almost the same as saying the word "can't". That's the banned word in the computer lab I ran for seven years. People could cuss if need be as long as it was not overt and unwarranted but they would get a talking to for saying "can't". I don't like self-defeatism if I can help it.

Oh god you used the "b word".

The whole planet needs to grow up. People suck. They're in competition with you for resources of all kinds and if you are a weaker fish you're the one whose gonna get picked on and eventually eaten. Expecting people not to be jerks is to deny evolution. Sharpen your stick and fight back.

Seriously this whole thread is just a cry for attention. Somebody lock it before I barf.

Well, like I said, I didn't care about cussing as long as it wasn't a long stream of it in a loud voice for no good reason. It was an office after-all, not a bar.

I'm not quite sure why you'd say this thread is a cry for attention when it obviously is. That's the point. To give attention to the act of bullying and to discuss it. I'm in no way denying "evolution" by expecting people not to be jerks. That would be a part of our further evolution. You know, to evolve from being jerks to caring people. If you want to continue being a jerk than do so. I'll try to evolve from being a jerk to someone who cares for others as should other people. The earth is too small not to. If you want someone to lock this thread so you're not forced to come here and waste your time writing to an "attention-starved" Drex, then by all means request it. Thank you for expressing your opinion, no matter what it is, it is appreciated if not disagreed with by me in a way.

 

[pixmedic]

kill da Wabbit.. Kill da WABbit!

You would have LOVED The Pact.

some of us still do!
support the bunny!

 

[amolitor]

I've clicked on The Pact links here and there, and it actually looked pretty good to me.

I'm not much of a joiner, and I'm not really much of an organized sports kind of guy. Still, while I don't remember any specific details, it's probably informed how I do critique, a little. I remember reading it and thinking 'hmm, that's not a bad idea, and that's ok too'. It's just not the kind of thing I sign up for.

 

[manaheim]

Well, like I said, I didn't care about cussing as long as it wasn't a long stream of it in a loud voice for no good reason. It was an office after-all, not a bar.

I'm not quite sure why you'd say this thread is a cry for attention when it obviously is. That's the point. To give attention to the act of bullying and to discuss it. I'm in no way denying "evolution" by expecting people not to be jerks. That would be a part of our further evolution. You know, to evolve from being jerks to caring people. If you want to continue being a jerk than do so. I'll try to evolve from being a jerk to someone who cares for others as should other people. The earth is too small not to. If you want someone to lock this thread so you're not forced to come here and waste your time writing to an "attention-starved" Drex, then by all means request it. Thank you for expressing your opinion, no matter what it is, it is appreciated if not disagreed with by me in a way.

I applaud the spirit If everyone felt the way you propose the world would be a kinder place.

However, it doesn't work that way, and this silly thread won't change it even in the relative microcosm known as TPF.

 

[AgentDrex]

So that's how things work. Anyone who brings up a subject that most are uncomfortable talking about is a whiner. I believe the thread is titled "...supposed..." and it was my position that there is NO bullying here at TPF (or none as far as I have been able to see not having gone through all the threads). So I ended up discussing bullying in general as it seemed there were quite a few people who had a strange attitude towards the subject.

Should I keep my opinions/ideas/thoughts to myself and not share them with my friends here? If so, I guess I will do that. It just saddens me that the attitude toward bullying is one of denial, mockery and chastising. I hope this evolution towards a spiritual connection with each other happens soon. Too many people seem to still be stuck in the defensive mode from when we were hunter/gatherers.

Well, if no one stands and tries, no matter where, than no change will ever happen. Even if the change starts in a little forum in the middle of buttf*** internet-land. No one knows how "it" (whatever is meant by "it") works anyhow. That's why there's so much confusion. We believe its fight or die all the time.

 

[amolitor]

What WILL change things is constant social pressure to change.

This thread is a little piece of social pressure. It's got rather a lot of extra posts in it at this point, but as long as everyone's having fun, I got no problem with it.

The community tends to behave in a way that is consistent with the perceived mores of the community. Threads like this, and a thousand other little nudges and hints are what set that perception of social mores. When people get snarky, and then other people Like their snark 500 times and reply with LOL!!!! and they reward the snark and push the perceived mores of the community in the other direction.

It's in constant motion. The urge toward bully and pointless meanness is constant, and if you want a pleasant and constructive community you have to keep up the constant counter-pressure, otherwise you get meanness as the standard.