Saying you like something

[snerd]

Guilty. Perhaps just hitting the "Like" button would be more appropriate for us newbs that like an image but can't really offer a critique?

 

[Vince.1551]

Guilty. Perhaps just hitting the "Like" button would be more appropriate for us newbs that like an image but can't really offer a critique?

To a certain extend probably comments are fine. Critiques can be very different. The challenge is whether the recipient can tell between the two ;-)

 

[Derrel]

I think of TPF as a collection of people who have a number of different goals and reasons. I don't see this as "a" photo community, but rather as a big, huge, multi-segmented society, and I think we need to realize that C&C is not the be-all, end-all of this site. I think the picture-takers and the picture-makers each need to be respected. I myself am not as sure, not as certain, that "C&C" is the best way to photographic growth. I honestly think there are other and much better ways to improve one's picture-taking and picture-making than through web based C&C.

 

[pixmedic]

people should bear in mind, that regardless of how some people feel TPF should work, this site is not strictly designated as a "critique" site. It is not required to post looking for critique, nor is it required to post giving critique.
That being said, I will agree that for people actually looking for critique as a means to improve their photography, getting solid technical reviews of their photo by those with experience and knowledge is extremely helpful, but I speak from experience when I say that there is no less a warm fuzzy feeling to simply hear that someone "likes" my photo.

I understand the concept that comments like "nice shot" or "it just doesn't work for me" are not the most helpful sort of comment to someone looking for actual critique. However, I present the concept that if a person takes the time to look at your photo and comment, regardless of their level of ability to critique, it is beneficial to the forum in the sense of community interaction. I think to spurn those types of comments entirely is to spurn the camaraderie that makes this forum a community, and not just a distant panel of judges.

 

[baturn]

Derrel and Pixmedic just said it better than I was able to. There is room for all types on a forum.

 

[The_Traveler]

The natural entropy in any forum makes it devolve if there isn't some effort by some part of the group to keep it at a certain level.
Because TPF gets a constant flood of people who are new to photography, if those who have do some skills and knowledge don't really make an effort to impart some of these to newer people, then what you have left is only people saying, 'I like that' to one another.
Without doing a real analysis my guess is that Derrel and I have done more critiquing in the last year or so than anyone else that is active.
Three or four years ago, there were a dozen people as active as we were in doing that kind of thing.

That can't be seen as progress.
There doesn't seen to be any mechanism to keep the mix TPF welcoming yet functioning as a reasonable level of skill except for work to keep bailing.

I'm clearly not saying that everyone should do C/C but only that people, no matter what their skill level, recognize that there is more to doing this well than patting each other on the behind and being part of a group.

 

[pjaye]

people should bear in mind, that regardless of how some people feel TPF should work, this site is not strictly designated as a "critique" site. It is not required to post looking for critique, nor is it required to post giving critique.
That being said, I will agree that for people actually looking for critique as a means to improve their photography, getting solid technical reviews of their photo by those with experience and knowledge is extremely helpful, but I speak from experience when I say that there is no less a warm fuzzy feeling to simply hear that someone "likes" my photo.

I understand the concept that comments like "nice shot" or "it just doesn't work for me" are not the most helpful sort of comment to someone looking for actual critique. However, I present the concept that if a person takes the time to look at your photo and comment, regardless of their level of ability to critique, it is beneficial to the forum in the sense of community interaction. I think to spurn those types of comments entirely is to spurn the camaraderie that makes this forum a community, and not just a distant panel of judges.

This.

To those that comment on my pictures, please know that Lew does not speak for me. I am thrilled when someone "likes" my pictures or simply gives kudo's to me for a good shot.

And I think this post really makes those like me, who don't feel always qualified to give in depth critique an really unwelcome feeling to this forum. And that frankly, sucks. I've had enough of that lately and it make me seriously reconsider my participation in this forum.

That being said, I will be sure to never simply "like" one of Lew's posts. I will simply ignore them.

 

[pjaye]

Guilty. Perhaps just hitting the "Like" button would be more appropriate for us newbs that like an image but can't really offer a critique?

Please don't. THis is the opinion of some, NOT all.

 

[snerd]

I understand what Lew is saying. I tend to forget how long I've been on the internetz, and the thick skin that has grown because of it. I know it's hard to convince someone new to the web that nothing is meant personal. Thinking back now, I can remember when I took everything personally, and someone telling me my picture sucked would have hurt my feelers. But that was in 1995 for gawds sake. LOL!!!

I understand the need to approach different people in different ways, but to get any better at this, you're going to have to be able to take what someone offers when critiquing as valuable information. If you can't accept constructive criticism without crying about it, well, maybe you just don't want to get any better? It only stings for a minute, really! Then you realize what they mean upon a closer look. That's invaluable to me!




Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk 2 Pro

 

[Dagwood56]

Adding my two cents - I don't think its as important to explain why you like someones photo as it is to explain why you don't. Myself, I often see a photo I really like, but can't always explain to someone the reasons why I like it....I just like it. Telling a person you like their image will at least boost their confidence levels a bit. However if someone doesn't like someones photo, posting something like "I don't like this" or "Toss it in the garbage" with no other explanation, is not only hurtful to the OP, but it serves no useful purpose in helping them improve, all they know from that, is that they did a bad job.

 

[Derrel]

I agree with most of your thoughts in the above, Post #21, Lew. I think more people ought to feel entitled/free/able to/welcome to [etc.,etc.] give their own reactions/opinions/comments/observations about photos, topics,posts, ideas expressed and so on. A simple observation is worth typing out a few sentecnmes, and then posting. So--come on people, stop being lurkers, and become responders! Post! Post! Post!

A second thing: yes, we have lost some people, some voices. There's a certain amount of churn, and we have lost some of the people who used to post a lot and offer a lot of valuable insight, instruction, explanation, and commentary. But we have also reduced the really brutal, almost daily bashing that we had in the tumultuous 2009-2010 period. We have also lost some people who were very old-school, anti-newbie, anti-beginning professional, and so on. And at the same time, I see NEW people coming on board to. We also still have Photoguy99, Sparky480, WayneF (scantips site, flash guru), TCampbell, coastalconn, MikeW [and some others on the bird-shooting crew], lambertpix, JoeW, Ysarex, cgw, sleist, baturn, bo4key, usayit, jsecordphoto, PaigeW, frommrstomommy, snerd, runnah, jamesbjenkins, JohnnyWrench, Scraig, sm4him,Patriot, and about three dozen other people whose names I am forgetting [sorry!] ALL OF THOSE people have valuable experience,comments,points of view. Some of them used to be more active; I wish all of them were more active these days.

I think what really hurts is that TPF lacks what I call "editorial guidance". We are not being lead by guidance from above, ahead of time, but instead are being moderated after bad behavior happens. We are not being TOLD what is being expected by leaders, but instead, the inmates are running the asylum. We do not receive much guidance or hear about any long-term plans, or strategies to make TPF better, at least not from "editors". I am not blaming the moderators or admins, just stating: this place is not run like say the Popular Photography Magazine forum or some other forums.

It's like we have a sort of democracy, but without clearly-elected leaders. That's what I see; we have police, and jails, and prisons. We have enlisted men and a few NCO's, but no brass...no high-level generals, not even colonels. And, I am not sure that I "Like that".

 

[terri]

And I think this post really makes those like me, who don't feel always qualified to give in depth critique an really unwelcome feeling to this forum. And that frankly, sucks. I've had enough of that lately and it make me seriously reconsider my participation in this forum.

Don't do that - you'd be playing right into his hands. My impression is that Lew regards TPF as some kind of professional/teaching environment, first and foremost - and as a social site, a distant second. Out of that notion come these kinds of threads which by turn result in unfortunate comments making people feel lazy or inadequate.

This is merely another thread in a long string from Lew espousing his opinion on how members should post in the Gallery sections of TPF. Granted, correct and expansive critique goes over many elements of an image, the technical ones mentioned here as well as one’s personal reaction to it (the “I like/don’t like it” viewer response).

But nowhere in the TPF guidelines is it suggested that if you don’t have the time, knowledge, or inclination to respond to every image you view with this type of C&C means you are committing some kind of violation.
This is just Lew expressing an apparently dearly-held pet peeve. It is shared by some, but not by everyone, and you needn’t feel like you are somehow a lesser poster here for not adhering to his viewpoint. It’s not his job to guard against TPF becoming “a mommy site” - another comment that comes off somewhat poorly in tone.

People come to TPF with a wide range of experience, interests - and even the desire to learn. The camaraderie that Lew mentions in a dismissive way is actually extremely important to an international forum – and friendliness is actually among the behavioral guidelines listed in the FAQ’s here, so offering someone a simple, friendly comment is something we will continue to encourage.

Have at it! :sun:

 

[pixmedic]

I agree with most of your thoughts in the above, Post #21, Lew. I think more people ought to feel entitled/free/able to/welcome to [etc.,etc.] give their own reactions/opinions/comments/observations about photos, topics,posts, ideas expressed and so on. A simple observation is worth typing out a few sentecnmes, and then posting. So--come on people, stop being lurkers, and become responders! Post! Post! Post!

A second thing: yes, we have lost some people, some voices. There's a certain amount of churn, and we have lost some of the people who used to post a lot and offer a lot of valuable insight, instruction, explanation, and commentary. But we have also reduced the really brutal, almost daily bashing that we had in the tumultuous 2009-2010 period. We have also lost some people who were very old-school, anti-newbie, anti-beginning professional, and so on. And at the same time, I see NEW people coming on board to. We also still have Photoguy99, Sparky480, WayneF (scantips site, flash guru), TCampbell, coastalconn, MikeW [and some others on the bird-shooting crew], lambertpix, JoeW, Ysarex, cgw, sleist, baturn, bo4key, usayit, jsecordphoto, PaigeW, frommrstomommy, snerd, runnah, jamesbjenkins, JohnnyWrench, Scraig, sm4him,Patriot, and about three dozen other people whose names I am forgetting [sorry!] ALL OF THOSE people have valuable experience,comments,points of view. Some of them used to be more active; I wish all of them were more active these days.

I think what really hurts is that TPF lacks what I call "editorial guidance". We are not being lead by guidance from above, ahead of time, but instead are being moderated after bad behavior happens. We are not being TOLD what is being expected by leaders, but instead, the inmates are running the asylum. We do not receive much guidance or hear about any long-term plans, or strategies to make TPF better, at least not from "editors". I am not blaming the moderators or admins, just stating: this place is not run like say the Popular Photography Magazine forum or some other forums.

It's like we have a sort of democracy, but without clearly-elected leaders. That's what I see; we have police, and jails, and prisons. We have enlisted men and a few NCO's, but no brass...no high-level generals, not even colonels. And, I am not sure that I "Like that".

I really wish i understood exactly what you are getting at here Derrel. we have the forums FAQ that states all the rules (that "tells you what is expected")
im not really sure what sort of announcements of "long term plans" you are expecting. not much changes here on a regular basis. when rules ARE being changed, we do announce it and even discuss it with the masses before putting it into effect. IE: the gun photo rule, and reinstatement of the photo challenge.
you are stating that there is a problem, but you did not offer up any solutions. can you describe exactly what sort of input you are looking for?
im really not sure what sort of pre-moderation you are alluding to that we are missing. As far as I can tell, no moderation is needed if there is no bad behavior to "moderate".

Its not like the mod team isnt open to suggestions on changes that could make this a better forum, but saying the forum isnt running right and leaving it at that isnt much more helpful than "that shot isnt working for me".
Can you offer a little more insightful critique?

I hope this doesnt come off as condescending Derrel, I am only writing this because you are one of the people i respect most around here and I am genuinely interested in a follow up to your post. you can PM it if you want to keep it private, or report my post and all the mods can see it.

 

[terri]

I think what really hurts is that TPF lacks what I call "editorial guidance". We are not being lead by guidance from above, ahead of time, but instead are being moderated after bad behavior happens. We are not being TOLD what is being expected by leaders, but instead, the inmates are running the asylum. We do not receive much guidance or hear about any long-term plans, or strategies to make TPF better, at least not from "editors". I am not blaming the moderators or admins, just stating: this place is not run like say the Popular Photography Magazine forum or some other forums.

It's like we have a sort of democracy, but without clearly-elected leaders. That's what I see; we have police, and jails, and prisons. We have enlisted men and a few NCO's, but no brass...no high-level generals, not even colonels. And, I am not sure that I "Like that".

You'd have to expand on that for me, Derrel. You must appreciate after your lengthy membership here that TPF is not a school, and it is certainly not trying to be Popular Photography, BetterPhoto or anything of the sort. It was started as forum for photography enthusiasts. This is from our Home Page: Welcome to ThePhotoForum.com - The premier Photography forum and Digital Photography forum on the web! The site was launched back in March of 2003 as a place for enthusiasts to learn and share information. We cover all makes and models of film, digital point and shoot, DSLR cameras including Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Pentax, Samsung, and more! There are many areas of discussions ranging from Digital Photography, Photography Tips, Photography Equipment, Camera Reviews and News, HDR Images, Film Photography, Weddings Photography, How to guides, RAW, Post Procesing, Printing, Critiques and much more!

The site has a Feedback & Suggestions forum open to anyone for ideas. I'm not certain what you think "leaders" here should be, especially from the moderator team. We're here to enforce the guidelines (generally behavioral in nature, thus the periodic slaps that you call jail) and take member suggestions or comments to the owners. But if you are looking for a principal leading teachers, no, that is not this platform. We have been, and will remain, a member-driven site - that is, our members are encouraged to take charge and start projects, become mentors or work with one, etc., etc. So please, if you have an idea for something different we're always ready to hear them!

 

[The_Traveler]

Don't do that - you'd be playing right into his hands. My impression is that Lew regards TPF as some kind of professional/teaching environment, first and foremost - and as a social site, a distant second. Out of that notion come these kinds of threads which by turn result in unfortunate comments making people feel lazy or inadequate.

This is merely another thread in a long string from Lew espousing his opinion on how members should post in the Gallery sections of TPF. Granted, correct and expansive critique goes over many elements of an image, the technical ones mentioned here as well as one’s personal reaction to it (the “I like/don’t like it” viewer response).

But nowhere in the TPF guidelines is it suggested that if you don’t have the time, knowledge, or inclination to respond to every image you view with this type of C&C means you are committing some kind of violation.
This is just Lew expressing an apparently dearly-held pet peeve. It is shared by some, but not by everyone, and you needn’t feel like you are somehow a lesser poster here for not adhering to his viewpoint. It’s not his job to guard against TPF becoming “a mommy site” - another comment that comes off somewhat poorly in tone.

People come to TPF with a wide range of experience, interests - and even the desire to learn. The camaraderie that Lew mentions in a dismissive way is actually extremely important to an international forum – and friendliness is actually among the behavioral guidelines listed in the FAQ’s here, so offering someone a simple, friendly comment is something we will continue to encourage.

Have at it! :sun:

Have you considered how damn disrespectful and dismissive of me your post is.
After all that the mods have said about not attacking someone personally?

You ought to read your own rules.