Schooling vs. Self-taught

[Flash Harry]

I was paying 20K a year for schooling and in second year I have decided to drop it. Workshops, internet and mentors are far cheaper and will get me ther in about the same time, plus all the pro's I have talked with have said the same thing. A degree is not needed a good portfolio is.

+1 though I did do a college diploma it was more to hone darkroom skills than the actual photography side of things, however I also learned quite a lot about studio, macro/micro, large format, formulas, digital imaging etc etc, all of which enabled a rapid transfer into digital when I knew the format was up to par. H

 

[Mike_E]

Do go to school. Do not major in photography. Minor in photography.

Succeeding in any kind of business requires sales ability and for an upscale market (read that people with or controlling large amounts of disposable dollars) which are usually degreed individuals. Having something in common with them helps to get the conversation started.

Plus, if the photography doesn't work out then you'll still have something to feed yourself with.

 

[kkamin]

I am a photo major the major advantages to schooling is that you are not only going to learn the digital world but the darkroom world and everything in between. You will learn all the tricks and depending on the school that you select you will be working under professors that can blow your mind with the work and the photos they have done.( i should know all my professors have amazing resumes and have taught me so much.) Schooling is an advantage depending on what you actually want to do if you want to work for a company and do photoshop and advertising layouts things like that it looks good to of taken photo classes and make connections with professors. If you want to shoot landscapes and other odds an ends you can be self taught and do very well. look at the photographer Zena Halloway self taught and AMAZING! Schooling just helps on a resume any one can work hard enough to self teach.

No amount of schooling will make anyone a good photographer. Most dentists have more photographic skill than graduates of such programs.

Again, I spent 10,000 hours during my BFA focused solely on creating art and learning the craft of photography and filmmaking. That had an enormous impact on where I am at now.

School is what you make of it. If you just drift through college without any passion for what you are studying, you will for sure be holding a useless degree in the end.

Do you want a self-taught dentist working on your teeth? Do you want a self-taught accountant doing your taxes? People think the arts are some natural ability that cannot be taught, and that simply isn't so. While the accountant is in school learning tax code, the visual artist is in school learning how to creatively problem solve and accumulating the knowledge of their medium from its inception to its current state.

To the OP, this forum is frequented mainly by enthusiasts and hobbyist and you are getting a lot of misguided feedback. School has its place for the aspiring creative professional. For most, a necessary place. If you find a good program with some amazing professors, it will be an invaluable experience.

 

[Petraio Prime]

I am a photo major the major advantages to schooling is that you are not only going to learn the digital world but the darkroom world and everything in between. You will learn all the tricks and depending on the school that you select you will be working under professors that can blow your mind with the work and the photos they have done.( i should know all my professors have amazing resumes and have taught me so much.) Schooling is an advantage depending on what you actually want to do if you want to work for a company and do photoshop and advertising layouts things like that it looks good to of taken photo classes and make connections with professors. If you want to shoot landscapes and other odds an ends you can be self taught and do very well. look at the photographer Zena Halloway self taught and AMAZING! Schooling just helps on a resume any one can work hard enough to self teach.

No amount of schooling will make anyone a good photographer. Most dentists have more photographic skill than graduates of such programs.

Again, I spent 10,000 hours during my BFA focused solely on creating art and learning the craft of photography and filmmaking. That had an enormous impact on where I am at now.

School is what you make of it. If you just drift through college without any passion for what you are studying, you will for sure be holding a useless degree in the end.

Do you want a self-taught dentist working on your teeth? Do you want a self-taught accountant doing your taxes? People think the arts are some natural ability that cannot be taught, and that simply isn't so. While the accountant is in school learning tax code, the visual artist is in school learning how to creatively problem solve and accumulating the knowledge of their medium from its inception to its current state.

To the OP, this forum is frequented mainly by enthusiasts and hobbyist and you are getting a lot of misguided feedback. School has its place for the aspiring creative professional. For most, a necessary place. If you find a good program with some amazing professors, it will be an invaluable experience.

I disagree. Many kinds (if not most) kinds of professional photography don't involve 'creativity', at least not in the way you are likely to think of it. What school might teach you is advanced industrial or commercial photographic skills, but that's mainly because big lighting systems and view cameras are made available to you. These are expensive items, but if you could afford them on your own, a few books and working as an assistant will give you basically the same skills.

I worked as an assistant with a pro who had gone to RIT, but I know many commercial pros who have learned what they know mainly through working it out on their own, or maybe taking a couple of seminars.

 

[bigtwinky]

I am a photo major the major advantages to schooling is that you are not only going to learn the digital world but the darkroom world and everything in between. You will learn all the tricks and depending on the school that you select you will be working under professors that can blow your mind with the work and the photos they have done.( i should know all my professors have amazing resumes and have taught me so much.) Schooling is an advantage depending on what you actually want to do if you want to work for a company and do photoshop and advertising layouts things like that it looks good to of taken photo classes and make connections with professors. If you want to shoot landscapes and other odds an ends you can be self taught and do very well. look at the photographer Zena Halloway self taught and AMAZING! Schooling just helps on a resume any one can work hard enough to self teach.

No amount of schooling will make anyone a good photographer. Most dentists have more photographic skill than graduates of such programs.

Again, I spent 10,000 hours during my BFA focused solely on creating art and learning the craft of photography and filmmaking. That had an enormous impact on where I am at now.

School is what you make of it. If you just drift through college without any passion for what you are studying, you will for sure be holding a useless degree in the end.

Do you want a self-taught dentist working on your teeth? Do you want a self-taught accountant doing your taxes? People think the arts are some natural ability that cannot be taught, and that simply isn't so. While the accountant is in school learning tax code, the visual artist is in school learning how to creatively problem solve and accumulating the knowledge of their medium from its inception to its current state.

To the OP, this forum is frequented mainly by enthusiasts and hobbyist and you are getting a lot of misguided feedback. School has its place for the aspiring creative professional. For most, a necessary place. If you find a good program with some amazing professors, it will be an invaluable experience.

Very well put.

A lot can be said for the time spent in class and developping your own tastes and artistic style. But as with anything, you get out what you put in.

 

[Sw1tchFX]

i'm in school for photography right now, and i'm almost done. Been in it for 4 years through two institutions. If you have any drive at all, don't do it.

I don't really want to go into it, but in a nut shell, if you have alot of friends, know alot of people, and are socially not a shut in, you don't need school. it's a big waste of time and energy, especially when you consider, "if i put 4 years into running a business, where could i be now?"

all school does is give you assignments to do for tens of thousands of dollars per year..out of YOUR pocket. And what do you walk away with? a piece of paper saying that you have a degree, and a bunch of mediocre work.

at least if you spent those tens of thousands per year on running a business, you'd still have the mediocre work, but you'd adapt faster, and at least you'd get paid for your time and energy, not to mention, you'd be much more established.

Photography school is if you want to teach it, that's about the only thing you can do with the $50-$165,000 worth of education.


I have a friend who 4 years ago worked at adidas in their marketing dept. He had never touched an SLR before. He quit his job, sold his house, got rid of his car, rented out a studio space in downtown, lived in it for 3 years, and now he shoots at Nike on Hasselblad's and Broncolors, has an average of 3 assistants working for him, and nets in about $100,000 a year doing very little work shooting, he spends more time remodeling his new place. He just kept telling himself that he was going to be the best commercial photographer in portland, and worked his a** off to do it.

 

[Petraio Prime]

i'm in school for photography right now, and i'm almost done. Been in it for 4 years through two institutions. If you have any drive at all, don't do it.

I don't really want to go into it, but in a nut shell, if you have alot of friends, know alot of people, and are socially not a shut in, you don't need school. it's a big waste of time and energy, especially when you consider, "if i put 4 years into running a business, where could i be now?"

all school does is give you assignments to do for tens of thousands of dollars per year..out of YOUR pocket. And what do you walk away with? a piece of paper saying that you have a degree, and a bunch of mediocre work.

at least if you spent those tens of thousands per year on running a business, you'd still have the mediocre work, but you'd adapt faster, and at least you'd get paid for your time and energy, not to mention, you'd be much more established.

Photography school is if you want to teach it, that's about the only thing you can do with the $50-$165,000 worth of education.


I have a friend who 4 years ago worked at adidas in their marketing dept. He had never touched an SLR before. He quit his job, sold his house, got rid of his car, rented out a studio space in downtown, lived in it for 3 years, and now he shoots at Nike on Hasselblad's and Broncolors, has an average of 3 assistants working for him, and nets in about $100,000 a year doing very little work shooting, he spends more time remodeling his new place. He just kept telling himself that he was going to be the best commercial photographer in portland, and worked his a** off to do it.

Precisely. I couln't agree more.

 

[Derrel]

The world of photography is very broad and very deep. Learning does not need to be from only one,specific place, and not from other places,people,or methods. Different people learn differently,and sometimes the learning can come from unexpected places and different fields of endeavor. There is much to be learned from the fine arts--composition and design, color theory,and so on...studying art history, design, drawing, or painting could be very helpful.

Some people learn best by physically doing things, and some people seem as if they absolutely must "do" in order to learn. Other people can learn by watching. Others can learn by reading. No two people are the same. This point has been told to me multiple times by several different life-long teachers I have spoken with.

As far as the places where learning takes place, and where the knowledge actually is found, or where it "comes from", the world is a big,big place. There are many books written about all topics photographic, many written and edited by genuine experts and leaders in their fields of specialization, and those books can be very valuable sources of knowledge. There is knowledge inside the heads of your fellow photographers and Photoshop jockeys. There is knowledge in the head of small-town pros who have made it in a tough business. The thing is, today, a lot of younger shooters and older shooters are at loggerheads with one another; the older books, the older shooters, the older ways of doing things emphasize training, scientific principles, and understanding of the nuts and bolts technical and optical issues underlying photography and lighting; the newer web site and web articles often emphasize "doing" and "looking at the LCD" for guidance, and often rely upon very extensive post-production to arrive at an end result.

The young and the old mentalities seem to butt heads on some of the more-advanced photo forums around the web...I personally find it interesting how so,so many young people do not want to really understand principles and ideas, but instead want "an action" or a "post-processing routine" to arrive at their final images.

Anyway...this issue really isn't an "either this, but not that" type of issue. If you want to learn about photography, you can learn about it from a million different sources, if you apply yourself. There is no one,true, guaranteed path,and there never has been.

 

[skieur]

The general rule of thumb for hiring and positions within companies and organizations that hire photographers is that the self-tought are at the low end of the financial scale doing the work and those with a degree and not necessarily in photography are doing the administration as well as the photography and earning much more money.

Of course there are some exceptions and self-taught photographers can move up to become photographer/administrators of a department but overall the photographer with a degree makes more money in the long term. This is often because within a company the photographer/administrator is expected to write reports, make presentations, edit public relations work, and supervise others.

In the entrepreneurial personal business sector however it may be the organizational, markletting, business or social skills that are important as well as how much money you can put into the business to get it started.

skieur

 

[usayit]

College degrees that don't pay - Art (4) - CNNMoney.com

 

[c.cloudwalker]

The general rule of thumb for hiring and positions within companies and organizations that hire photographers is that the self-tought are at the low end of the financial scale doing the work and those with a degree and not necessarily in photography are doing the administration as well as the photography and earning much more money.

Wow. I'd like to see the study that shows that. Years ago, I was offered a job by a major tire company although my experience was in PJ work and I had no degree. This company's problem, as outlined by the person who made the offer and who happened to be a friend of my family, was that they couldn't attract creative photogs because of their rules. The studio was located in the main HQ building and the photogs, so as to not bother the pencil pushers, had to wear a coat and tie. They also had to work 9 to 5.

As a result they got graduates from photo schools who were technically proficient but artistically lacking. This friend, who happened to be the marketing director and had seen my personal work, tried to interest me by throwing a very nice salary at me. Unfortunately, coat and tie wasn't my style and neither is 9 to 5.

I started in photo with no formal education but that doesn't me I did not have any. I learned from reading manuals, trying things out, and mostly, from talking with other photos.

That doesn't mean however that I am against schools. It really depends on how YOU learn best. I'm good at learning on my own but some of us need the structure of the classroom and only you know which type you are. Be honest with yourself and you'll figure it out.

On the other hand, creativity is not taught in school. Creativity is something you have or you're going to learn on your own.

One thing from previous posts I agree with is that you can get a whole lot of gear for the price of an education. But if you are not the type to learn on your own, that gear will be pretty much useless.

 

[skieur]

College degrees that don't pay - Art (4) - CNNMoney.com

Somewhat understandable since businesses, companies, organizations etc. are looking for literacy as well as photographic skills and those skills are not necessarily learned in a straight art degree.

skieur

 

[skieur]

The general rule of thumb for hiring and positions within companies and organizations that hire photographers is that the self-tought are at the low end of the financial scale doing the work and those with a degree and not necessarily in photography are doing the administration as well as the photography and earning much more money.

Wow. I'd like to see the study that shows that. Years ago, I was offered a job by a major tire company although my experience was in PJ work and I had no degree. This company's problem, as outlined by the person who made the offer and who happened to be a friend of my family, was that they couldn't attract creative photogs because of their rules. The studio was located in the main HQ building and the photogs, so as to not bother the pencil pushers, had to wear a coat and tie. They also had to work 9 to 5.

As a result they got graduates from photo schools who were technically proficient but artistically lacking. This friend, who happened to be the marketing director and had seen my personal work, tried to interest me by throwing a very nice salary at me. Unfortunately, coat and tie wasn't my style and neither is 9 to 5.

I started in photo with no formal education but that doesn't me I did not have any. I learned from reading manuals, trying things out, and mostly, from talking with other photos.

That doesn't mean however that I am against schools. It really depends on how YOU learn best. I'm good at learning on my own but some of us need the structure of the classroom and only you know which type you are. Be honest with yourself and you'll figure it out.

On the other hand, creativity is not taught in school. Creativity is something you have or you're going to learn on your own.

One thing from previous posts I agree with is that you can get a whole lot of gear for the price of an education. But if you are not the type to learn on your own, that gear will be pretty much useless.

The education systems are different in Canada and the US and probably different again in Europe. I supervised the photography school graduates, wrote the reports and proposals for budget increases, made professional business presentations, wrote scripts, ran projects that involved photography in other departments etc, produced and directed television and other media projects and of course did photography and television camera work as well. The requirement for my position beyond photography and television production was excellent oral speaking and written literacy skills necessary for working in a professional business environment and that meant a classical university degree on top of the photographic/film/television training achieved at community college.

On the other hand this is far from the "starving artist" or "private business" photographer but then the pay is much more predictable and steady.

skieur

 

[Derrel]

Can we be of any assistance? - British Journal of Photography

 

[James Taylor]

I think what's been said above is all good advice - very indicative of how many paths can lead to success.

I think you have to define your vision of a "successful photographer" before you can really get personal advice, otherwise everyone has to opine from their own life and experience - which may not match your goals.

Schooling can make you successful, yes, that's a true statement. Self-teaching can produce the same level of photographer who is just as successful - well, yes, that's also true.

No matter what path you take, it's the man who makes the man - the woman who makes the woman.

A school won't make you a success - an equal amount of time and investment in books and camera gear won't make you a success either. Neither on their own. You'll need those damned ol' "qualities": passion, drive, work ethic (a good one, that is), ambition, tenacity.

That said, I'm a bootstrapper, a frugal businessman, especially in the start-up phase. I wouldn't advise taking on tens of thousands of dollars in debt betting on eventually starting a business you may not even enjoy running.

If your parents or grants or scholarships are paying for your college learnin's, without a doubt, take advantage and get yourself a business degree with as much photography education as you can get - that will give you the best odds of success in life, no matter what happens with your photo career.

If you're paying out of pocket or with loans, consider taking a summer or a full year to try your hand at launching your own photography business. Portraiture is very easy to get into, and only grows in its rewards - both social and monetary - with time. Even if you decide to go back to college, continue to run your business part time - over the years, you'll have built up a wonderful asset in the form of a loyal, repeat client base, and exposure as a professional in your market.

If you go the self-taught route, your shortest path to success will be focusing on a single, profitable niche. Every book you buy, workshop you attend, practice session you do should be to the end of making you the best in your niche in your market. The best baby photographer, or the best high school senior photographer, or the best family photographer - both as a photographer with your art, and as a business with your marketing and professionalism.

Self-teaching business skills will be the tough part. "Business" is about as broad a topic as "Self Help" and "History." Start with holistic marketing books like Michael Port's "Book Yourself Solid" and John Jantsch's "Duct Tape Marketing." You'll need to learn the legalities of running a business in your community, as well as how to handle money, both literally and figuratively, as in taxes and accounting.

Photography is a wonderful profession - the people I meet and the flexibility it provides me to spend time with my two (soon to be three!) kids makes it invaluable for my lifestyle. Evaluate yourself and your lifestyle, be real, and trust your instincts - only you know whether school or self-teaching will give you what you, you as an individual, as Roman Tafoya, need to be successful.