Schooling vs. Self-taught

[Christie Photo]

How do your figure? Are you saying the applicants are teaching? Your assertion is irrational.

:er: Yeah, that must be it. Apparently deductive reasoning is a learned skill. Next time I'll be sure to draw pictures and use big words.

OR... you could substantiate what you say.

Sbuxo asked for your source. It's not enough to say it's somewhere on a government website.

And when attempting to use an adage to make a point, learn it's meaning first to be sure it's apt. Also, sarcasm is not a very convincing or mature response to a valid question.

Now... where is that government website?

-Pete

 

[kundalini]

Pretty much common knowledge.

Common knowledge is not all that common. I believe you speak of an axiom, whereas your statement is believed to be a self-evident truth that requires little, if any, proof.

Don't BS a BS'ter, in other words.

 

[Browncoat]

What I said had plenty of substance. Additionally, I was unaware that information passed along on these forums had to be in APA format and certified by independent research firms. The website is: National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) Home Page, a part of the U.S. Department of Education. As for the adage, it's applicable here. And after reading many of your previous posts, you would do well to take your own advice on sarcasm.

kundalini: The truth is self-evident enough to those who care to learn and know it.

 

[kkamin]

Can you link to the statistics from that site that support the statistics quoted.

 

[Christie Photo]

Can you link to the statistics from that site that support the statistics quoted.

And maybe a link or two to my posts here where I was sarcastic.

-Pete

 

[Browncoat]

Can you link to the statistics from that site that support the statistics quoted.

No.

This was the very topic for a research paper I wrote last year. The direct links (there were several) I have cited in my paper are not valid except through the Academic Search Complete database, and requires a university login and password.

The information is there, but I'm not going to sift through it all again to post a link on a photography forum. If someone is that interested in finding this info, they can do their own homework.

 

[kkamin]

Can you link to the statistics from that site that support the statistics quoted.

No.

This was the very topic for a research paper I wrote last year. The direct links (there were several) I have cited in my paper are not valid except through the Academic Search Complete database, and requires a university login and password.

The information is there, but I'm not going to sift through it all again to post a link on a photography forum. If someone is that interested in finding this info, they can do their own homework.

Thanks for the useful statistics. Does anyone else find it ironic that Browncoat is a student?

 

[Christie Photo]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Browncoat is a student?

I'm not sure... could you draw me some pictures?

BTW... That's sarcasm.

-Pete

 

[Browncoat]

Thanks for the useful statistics. Does anyone else find it ironic that Browncoat is a student?

This tit-for-tat is becoming boring...I guess it's my own fault for feeding the trolls. Ironic that I am a student? I suppose there is irony in that, yes. However, we are talking about apples and oranges here. Were I someday looking to get a job or pay increase from a photography studio by obtaining a degree in photography from an accredited university, your point might be valid. If customers gave weight to said photography degree, it might be even more valid.

Before the derailment of this thread, the topic was schooling vs. self-taught. In most situations, having a degree is an obvious benefit. It makes you more marketable to any employer. Photography is an art. For all practical reasons, a degree in art is virtually meaningless unless you can produce visually appealing results. No one really cares if you went to some fancy art school, learned from Jean-Paul in France, or just started yesterday. My point was to draw a correlation between an old adage and actual statistical data. That those who enter the teaching profession generally lack practical aptitude that would make them successful in the private sector. In this case, learning photography from someone who can't take very good pictures.

And now gentlemen, I've said my piece and bid you adieu. I have other forums to visit and flames to put out. Good evening.

 

[Christie Photo]

Before the derailment of this thread, the topic was schooling vs. self-taught. In most situations, having a degree is an obvious benefit. It makes you more marketable to any employer. Photography is an art. For all practical reasons, a degree in art is virtually meaningless unless you can produce visually appealing results. No one really cares if you went to some fancy art school, learned from Jean-Paul in France, or just started yesterday. My point was to draw a correlation between an old adage and actual statistical data. That those who enter the teaching profession generally lack practical aptitude that would make them successful in the private sector. In this case, learning photography from someone who can't take very good pictures.

The reason I'm bustin' your chops on this is you've stated a valid, often-popular position and tried to prop it up with "facts" from... "a study." Your position is fine enough. Everyone here is fine with that. Others will have different positions. You need to be fine with that and not assert unsubstantiated "facts" to discount views that differ from your own.

And now gentlemen, I've said my piece and bid you adieu. I have other forums to visit and flames to put out. Good evening.

Well, good evening to you too. And do come back. But there's no need to set things ablaze for the sake of seeing things burn. Remember... when you read something posted here, a real person made it... wanting to help. We all here will snuff flames too when it becomes necessary.

-Pete

And, oh.... name-calling? Really?

 

[snichols]

You don't say what type of professional photography you intend to do - there are so many different types.

I know good photographers who are lousy business people and mediocre photographers who make a good living. Its all about balance. Understanding how to use your camera is one thing. Knowing what the market wants and how to deliver it is another.

If you can find a course that delivers both then go for it.

Steve

Author of "Better PR and Editorial Photography" - see
Learn how to take editorial and PR images you can be proud of

 

[usayit]

A person formally studied in science, technology, engineering.. etc... who ended working a teaching job.

Versus

A person formally studied in EDUCATION AS A STUDY and working a teaching job.



Two entirely different peoples... The study itself and the stats my be sound but someone is f'in up their drawn conclusions on their paper. If were grading that paper, I'd give it a big fat "F".


For those that don't get it....


Someone who tried to excel at some speciality and ended up as a teacher is not necessarily a failure NOR did they go to the college of education. Someone who went to college to study education currently working a teaching job IS doing what they were trained and educated for. Hence.. they are actually a success. So the stats/study quoted do not relate in any way to the population that falls under the stupid notion "those that can't do, teach".


(As a side note, it is would be disturbing if the College of Education reports the worst incoming talent as they have an important job... but that has nothing to do with the stated argument at hand)

 

[Browncoat]

Interesting points. Here's a quote from Billy Madison:

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

:thumbup:

 

[bigtwinky]

^^ :roll:

 

[usayit]

Interesting points. Here's a quote from Billy Madison:

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

:thumbup:

Or too much of an idiot to give an intelligent response.

(You do realize that Billy Madison is a movie .. a comedy no doubt. It doesn't help)