Should I get the Nikon D3s or the Canon 1D Mark IV?

[Moe]

:banghead:
I apologize in advance. I don't think this counts as a rant, but...

We get it. These two cameras are top of the line. They each are super-capable for shooting sports, among other uses. They each have small advantages over the other. One may be better at this or that, but not by much in the grand scheme of things. These advantages aren't major in most people's eyes. However, they are enough to make someone sway one way or the other. To each his own.

I've seen the main two characters in this thread have many...we'll say...disagreements. Let me say that you aren't going to get the other one to concede. It's like you are trying to convince yourselves as much as you are trying to convince the other guy. There is always going to be someone who is unhappy with the best (or has trouble correctly operating the best). I've done research on many things before buying. No matter what the object, or how expensive it is, I can always find negative reviews, and many of them. TV's, hard drives, cars, computers, I could go on.

I'm not trying to get on anyone's bad side. I've learned a lot from you guys, as have many of the people here. But come on, how much more?

BTW, I know I can choose not to view these threads, but sometimes it's like a car crash. Tough to look away.

 

[inTempus]

I'm going to try using the slow
sensitivity at some point but I don't have much

Oh, you mean he might actually read Canon's white paper and tune his AF system for the sport he's shooting at some point? Well golly gee! That would be ideal!

Ironically, the D3 requires tuning as well if you want it to be even remotely reliable in such situations. But let's not mention that.

A button sticking!?!?!? OMG, no way! You mean there might be a defective 1D4 out there with a sticking button? It's time for a recall!

:lmao:

 

[schumionbike]

This thread was suppose to be a fun thread that turn into a discuassion about AF system I did get to read a lot of articles from the links every one provided which was kind of fun. By the way Moe, how do you like your Sigma 18-50 2.8, I want to get one but I'm a little nervous about reliablity problems with Sigma. Any thought?

 

[inTempus]

The second post from the thread you cited.

->> Gregory:

I was very happy with my 1DIV's AF performance shooting NCAA basketball. I posted a thread with some photos/impressions here: 1DMKIV Round 2: NCAA Men's BB - FM Forums

My relevant settings for C.FnIII:

1-0
2- -1 = one scale point to the left of center (moderately slow?)
3-0
4-1
5-0
6-4
7-2
8-2
9-1
10-1
11-1
12-0
13-0
14-1
15-0
16-0
17-0
18-Disable
19-Disable

AF acquisition was super fast, tracking was consistent, didn't lose focus much at all.

There's a great Canon document that covers the many complexities of the AF system. Check it out if you haven't seen it yet: http://tinyurl.com/ybenq77

Did the OP post pics of his issues? Nope. But the first responder to his post did, of a NCAA game no less. I would say judging by his shots he knows what he's doing.

As I said before, Derrel likes to find the negative (and coincidentally ignores the positive) then races to the forums frantically trying to prove Canon sucks. Objectivity? He'll have absolutely none of that, there's an agenda that needs tending to.

 

[inTempus]

I've seen the main two characters in this thread have many...we'll say...disagreements. Let me say that you aren't going to get the other one to concede. It's like you are trying to convince yourselves as much as you are trying to convince the other guy. There is always going to be someone who is unhappy with the best (or has trouble correctly operating the best). I've done research on many things before buying. No matter what the object, or how expensive it is, I can always find negative reviews, and many of them. TV's, hard drives, cars, computers, I could go on.

Yeah, I know that people having discussions on discussion forums can be a bit taxing at times. I suppose we could have the Admin immediatley lock threads after the OP posts so no further discussion could take place. Or perhaps we could have a new rule that says you can only agree with the OP and we'll have no disagreeing or sharing of alternate viewpoints.

That would sure perk this place up, it would be infinitely more fun and educational.

 

[Moe]

Having an educational discussion is one thing, but I think 5 pages of back and forth, "this says this," and "that says that," gets a little old. It's not about having a different viewpoint. If that were the case, there would be no talk of ignore lists, etc. There would be no criticism of others' work. It goes from being educational to just trying to prove the other wrong, which as I said is not going to happen. At some point it goes from being "fun and educational" and "disagreeing and sharing of alternate viewpoints" to a pi**ing contest.

 

[inTempus]

If the back and forth is too much for you to bare, and if you can't control your urges to view it despite it aggravating you to no end, technology is here to help!

 

[Moe]

And the beat goes on...

 

[inTempus]

And the beat goes on...

Apparently you're interested in now going toe to toe with me on the subject of post content. Ironic to say the least.

How's about a big old fashioned hug?

:hugs:

Now, let's forget our differences and move along. If I didn't make your ignore list that is.

 

[Moe]

BTW, shchum, I love the Sigma. It has its weaknesses, but I love it. Such a step up from the kit (which isn't saying much). I didn't try the Nikon version but I'm sure it's better, just not enough to justify the price for me.

 

[Moe]

No, it's fine man. No problem here, I just hate to see you two guys do that after so many pages. Just the mood I've been in, I guess. I just didn't see the point after a while, and I posted.
No, I definitely don't want to go toe to toe. You have quite the ability to debate. I didn't mean to bring any heat this way.

 

[gsgary]

I can't believe what i have just read
Quote
The AF simply grabs other players
too randomly. I'm going to try using the slow
sensitivity at some point but I don't have much
confidence in it.

It is common knowledge that you use moderatley slow or slow servo for field sports where there are lots of player, some pro he is, i think most of the problems are people buying cameras that they don't know how to use

 

[inTempus]

It is common knowledge that you use moderatley slow or slow servo for field sports where there are lots of player, some pro he is, i think most of the problems are people buying cameras that they don't know how to use

Bingo.

People seem to think that if you take the camera out with factory default settings it's supposed to do everything perfectly. No, that's why they have so many custom function settings. You need to adjust your body for the type of shooting you're doing. Passing judgment on the performance of a body when you don't even understand what the custom settings are for is silly.

There's a reason D3 shooters that know what they're doing immediately set A1 AF-C Priority Selection to "release + focus" before stepping foot on the playing field. If you don't, the D3 will just shoot regardless if it has focus or not by default.

Many will also switch from 51 points to 21 or even fewer to get better AF performance from the D3 (A3 Dynamic AF Area).

There are other custom functions that you need to set as well to tune your D3, but this is one of the first things most shooters will change from factory default. If you're a noob to Nikon and don't do this, you'll go online and ***** about the results...

The D3s has the exact same AF system as the D3 before it. People are used to it as they've been using it now for a few years. There's been plenty of discussions out there helping people find the ideal settings for sports shooting with the D3. The 1D4 on the other hand has a completely new AF system, and new settings that do things completely differently than the bodies before it. People are still figuring out the best settings for any given application.

 

[gsgary]

When i'm using my MK2's i have different custom settings for different sports eg Horses, rugby, cricket no setting is the same for these 3 sports

 

[inTempus]

I just stumbled across this...

A Response to Rob Galbraith’s Canon Autofocus Article Photofocus

An article from a Nikon shooter regarding the 1D4 AF.

While Rob admits that the Canon 1D MK IV’s autofocus performance has improved, he also claims the camera is not reliable enough to depend on it in a professional setting.


I disagree.

Now Rob and I aren’t THAT far apart on this issue. He says the Nikon D3s offers better autofocus. I agree. But he also says that the D3s is “trustworthy and dependable enough for us to be confident using it for peak action sports” and that the Canon is not. Here is where I disagree. I shoot fast-moving birds every day. And the action is very comparable to shooting fast action sports.


While I purchased the Canon to shoot video, I have been testing its stills capabilities for reportage here on Photofocus and elsewhere.


In my tests, the Canon 1D MK IV is indeed reliable. Remember that I have shot extensively with the D3 and the D3s. I made the switch to Nikon FROM Canon about two years ago because of the 1D MK III AF. After shooting the D3, I bought five D3 bodies and then replaced them with five D3s bodies. So when I make the comparison, it’s based on actually owning and using the bodies day in and day out, not just testing them over a weekend.


I have two 1D MK IV bodies in hand and two more in the studio back home and one on order. You can bet I wouldn’t commit $25k to bodies that won’t autofocus well. On location in Florida I have made countless sequences of shots using the Canon that were in tack sharp focus.