Slack or plainly inept?

[JHF Photography]

I don't believe the fine gentlemen in this thread are against asking questions. The issue as I see is towards people who don't even want to make an effort.

To which your response I assume would be 'we all were once newbies and have asked the same questions'. Yes we were newbies, but with lots of drive. Let's take you for example. You thoroughly did you research. You had an "I want to learn" attitude. You had the hunger and hungry people do not wait to be fed. You worked real hard towards your goals. And now you are reaping the harvest.

Thank you, danalec, and well said.

Instead of saying, "Gee, I'm not sure what the best camera is for what you DREAM of doing is. Please give more info."
what we get is, "Look it up. I don't have time to answer you. You are obviously too stupid to start a photography business".

Big Big Big difference.

You make a great point here. It really is important how questions are answered, and tone and wording can make the difference in the way the thread progresses. A lot of the flaming threads could have been avoided by a slightly less curt response to an (unfortunately) stupid question.

I am seeing more and more kids are not being taught how to do proper research and/or they just don't learn how to begin researching. Your standard issue search can prove a little overwhelming If you don't really know what you are looking for. Let's take the everpopular HDR for example, something I know nothing about, I'm not a digital photographer, why should I. The fastest and easiest search I can think of is to wiki-it because wiki knows all.

Problem: Wikipedia knows too much, the search brings up

I think this is very true of today... the amount of people who don't have the necessary skills to research things for themselves astounds me at times. And yes, Wikipedia and Google pull up an overwhelming amount of information that may be far too much for a newbie to digest or even distinguish the correct stuff from. However, you left out the fact that this forum has a very basic search tool as well, and generally the results it pulls up have very useful, well answered and discussed information. It is a lot less overwhelming than google, as everything searched on here is (99% of the time) directly related to photography.

 

[Richard]

You know what is funny is if I remember right my first post was something like "what camera do you recommend?" and it never crossed my mind that this question would be so frequent. I really thought I might be the first person in a month to ask that. Actually I remember it now, I was doing research when like a light bulb went off in my head I thought "hey you should look for a photography forum and ask that question and get an answer that is current", I was so excited and proud of myself to think of that. When I joined I didn't waste anytime I quickly asked the question. Now looking back I see how much of a common newbie I was. It wasn't till after I became a member and learned more about photography and learned more about forums that I realized that I shouldn't have posted that question... but I can't really do it over I just have to move on and hope no one remembers how newbie I was.... still am.

But I will never give another newbie a hard time about it, obviously because I was there.

Another side note: If you have never joined a forum before you may not know how to really use it.

Anyway just thought I would share that story because I can't believe I was one! As Homer Simpson would say... "DOH!"

 

[wildmaven]

I am a long standing member of a general forum which has over 100,000 members, most of whom are between the ages of 13 and 18. I am there to watch for internet predators. I have seen a variation of just about every thread imaginable at least ten times. Somedays I just don't have the energy to reply to the repeated questions, so I just don't reply. Other times I do reply, and I treat those questions the same way I treated that question the first time I replied to it. Sometimes the kids come up with a thread saying "I was just sitting here wondering what the contrasts and comparisons were between Othello and Iago. What are your thoughts on this?" I obviously know they're trying to get others to do their homework, and I will POLITELY call them on it. The members of the forum have given me the nickname "the velvet fist" because I can get my point across without having to resort to name calling or making the person feel really bad. I have learned to log off and go stand in the sun if I feel myself becoming irritated at a member. Perhaps that should be one of the forum rules.

Marian

 

[Garbz]

Nah if everyone had to log off and stand in the sun every time they got irritated on the internet a) there'd be no one left on the net, and b) we'd all die of skin cancer.

 

[LaFoto]

You know what is funny is if I remember right my first post was something like "what camera do you recommend?" and it never crossed my mind that this question would be so frequent. I really thought I might be the first person in a month to ask that. Actually I remember it now, I was doing research when like a light bulb went off in my head I thought "hey you should look for a photography forum and ask that question and get an answer that is current", I was so excited and proud of myself to think of that. When I joined I didn't waste anytime I quickly asked the question. Now looking back I see how much of a common newbie I was. It wasn't till after I became a member and learned more about photography and learned more about forums that I realized that I shouldn't have posted that question... but I can't really do it over I just have to move on and hope no one remembers how newbie I was.... still am. ...

And yes. You should have. Why not?
I still think that this is what internet forums are there for!
And also I, when I first joined TPF some 3 1/2 years ago, never stopped to really read any guidelines ... took me weeks to even find the Welcome and Introductions-forum "down there in the basement" where it has always been, for I was so excited to have become a member and so keen to get my first pics shown ... I am the first to be blamed for having been a new member who did NOT read the guidelines or check out the forum THOROUGHLY first. Like yourself, also I was just happiness and excitement personified over having found this forum and plunged in head first!

Now I do see both sides of the medal, as we would say in German.

I see where Garbz comes from (and some of the others who claim that most people today wish to get each and every snippet of information spoon-fed to them), and I see where you come from, and I came from (who I also once simply asked the much dreaded question of "What is HDR?", although I could have looked it up elsewhere!!!).

I am also member on another forum (have been for over six years now), which is an author's fan forum, where she herself (i.e the author) and her admin are their sole mods, too, and after some 3 or 4 years with that forum running had gone by and the newbies came and over and again asked the same questions about herself, her life, her books etc (info that could all be found easily on her homepage, too), she set down to write a sticky-article for newbies, and that they please take the time to first read through her homepage, the forum archives, and if they THEN STILL did not find the answer to the question they have (which they most likely WOULD!), they were very welcome to ask it. And hey, over there it works!

(But that may be the case because she, the forum owner, is a well-respected book author and her fans all look up to her quite a bit, so she displays an authority that helps her greatly in getting this issue of newbies-asking-the-same-over-and-again solved thus easily).

 

[ZedU54]

...now, I HAVE read the manuals for my cameras, and done a little looking around on the Web for information as well, but that isn't going to guarantee that I won't nonetheless have questions that might seem elementary...for example, I'm having a little trouble understanding the term 'macro' as it applies to photography...

LaFoto...'both sides of the medal' = 'both sides of the coin'...die beide Seiten der Münze?...

 

[LaFoto]

"Zwei Seiten einer Medaille" ... welcome to ThePhotoForum, ZedU54 from New Brunswick in ... oops. "ME"? Is that the abbreviation of Maine?

And yes, I still vote for this forum - as any internet forum - to also be there for one or the other "silly" question. My - I still could ask so many of those!!!

 

[Alex_B]

Nobody is forced to answer a question he does not like. It is as simple as that for me

On some days those questions which are asked again and again and could be easlily answered in the manual or elsewhere,just would be a pain to answer, so then I just ignore them. On other days, when in the mood, I might even give a freindly and lengthy answer.

 

[Alex_B]

My - I still could ask so many of those!!!

Go for it! Don't be shy!

 

[ZedU54]

"Zwei Seiten einer Medaille" ... welcome to ThePhotoForum, ZedU54 from New Brunswick in ... oops. "ME"? Is that the abbreviation of Maine?

And yes, I still vote for this forum - as any internet forum - to also be there for one or the other "silly" question. My - I still could ask so many of those!!!

...verzeihe bitte meine Mißübersetzung!...:mrgreen:...ich kann etwas Deutsch...

...it's just Brunswick; New Brunswick is in Canada...and yes, it is Maine...the name, by the way, is an Anglicization of Braunschweig...

 

[Garbz]

huh? Mißübersetzung is that the correct word? Never come across it myself. Ein paar von uns sprechen Deutsch!

The question of what macro is though as easy as it sounds can cause quite some discussion. There's plenty of lenses that are marked Macro despite not being able to achieve the 1:1 reproduction ratio of the "proper" macro lenses. But again I say this rant was started by me because of a lack of effort. Compare:

"What is macro?" to "I know macro is associated with magnified objects but is there a real definition of macro."

The former implies spoon feeding. The latter implies that someone has given it some thought and is looking for more information. I'm sure most people know macro has to do with the magnification of small objects but the way you word the question can also give you very different results.

For the former you may get results like "taking photos of small things is macro photography". The latter question is more likely to include the terms "reproduction ratio, and what 1:1 means"

 

[ZedU54]

huh? Mißübersetzung is that the correct word? Never come across it myself. Ein paar von uns sprechen Deutsch!

The question of what macro is though as easy as it sounds can cause quite some discussion. There's plenty of lenses that are marked Macro despite not being able to achieve the 1:1 reproduction ratio of the "proper" macro lenses. But again I say this rant was started by me because of a lack of effort. Compare:

"What is macro?" to "I know macro is associated with magnified objects but is there a real definition of macro."

The former implies spoon feeding. The latter implies that someone has given it some thought and is looking for more information. I'm sure most people know macro has to do with the magnification of small objects but the way you word the question can also give you very different results.

For the former you may get results like "taking photos of small things is macro photography". The latter question is more likely to include the terms "reproduction ratio, and what 1:1 means"

...well, I'm not sure if 'Mißübersetzung' (for 'mistranslation') is a proper word or not, but 'Mißverständnis' ('misunderstanding') is...I was logically extending that 'Miß-' prefix (German being a very 'logical' language...:mrgreen...
...back to topic: in other words, 'macro' refers to a lens's ability to actually magnify an object to produce an actual-size (hence the 1:1 ratio) image...got it!...

 

[Hill202]

huh? Mißübersetzung is that the correct word? "

Read your manual, page 47!



Somebody had to say it

 

[Battou]

I am seeing more and more kids are not being taught how to do proper research and/or they just don't learn how to begin researching. Your standard issue search can prove a little overwhelming If you don't really know what you are looking for. Let's take the everpopular HDR for example, something I know nothing about, I'm not a digital photographer, why should I. The fastest and easiest search I can think of is to wiki-it because wiki knows all.

Problem: Wikipedia knows too much, the search brings up

I think this is very true of today... the amount of people who don't have the necessary skills to research things for themselves astounds me at times. And yes, Wikipedia and Google pull up an overwhelming amount of information that may be far too much for a newbie to digest or even distinguish the correct stuff from. However, you left out the fact that this forum has a very basic search tool as well, and generally the results it pulls up have very useful, well answered and discussed information. It is a lot less overwhelming than google, as everything searched on here is (99% of the time) directly related to photography.

Ah, the fact I left that out also brings attention to an interesting yet opposite aspect as well. On a few diffrent web sites (including this one) I have been complimented on having "Eagle Eyes" seeing things some people don't, but yet I over looked this. Yes, Running a search for Photography related information on a Photography forum/web site (or any other single subject site) would get the correct information, It's a logical conclution. However, some times the easiest solution gets over looked when it is obvious.

 

[Garbz]

Read your manual, page 47!

Somebody had to say it

My manual is in english