So, do I get to call myself a professional now?

[SquarePeg]

I know your original question was a bit rhetorical but, IMO, the minute you earn even $1 from your photos, you go from amateur to pro.

 

[pixmedic]

I can see we're not going to change your mind, and I'll stop right after this:

Your question was "can I now call myself a professional photographer?"

As someone wrote; (paraphrasing) "anyone can call themselves anything they want" , but the general consensus was that a "professional photographer" earns most, if not all, of his income from photography. If that continues to hold true for you, then by all means, you are a professional photographer.

ive never understood the reasoning that % of income = "professional"...
how does that work exactly?
are people that work two jobs NOT a professional at the job they do less?

when I finish my RN, but continue to do flight part time as a paramedic, am I no longer a professional paramedic since i will be earning
much less than 50% of my total income from that field? what do i become then, an amateur paramedic?

the money=pro argument makes zero rational sense when broken down.


a professional in sports is anyone who is earning money from it. theres no mention of how much money needs to be earned, only that there is income.
which is why college players dont "make money" *cough cough*.

 

[table1349]

I can see we're not going to change your mind, and I'll stop right after this:

Your question was "can I now call myself a professional photographer?"

As someone wrote; (paraphrasing) "anyone can call themselves anything they want" , but the general consensus was that a "professional photographer" earns most, if not all, of his income from photography. If that continues to hold true for you, then by all means, you are a professional photographer.

ive never understood the reasoning that % of income = "professional"...
how does that work exactly?
are people that work two jobs NOT a professional at the job they do less?

when I finish my RN, but continue to do flight part time as a paramedic, am I no longer a professional paramedic since i will be earning
much less than 50% of my total income from that field? what do i become then, an amateur paramedic?

the money=pro argument makes zero rational sense when broken down.


a professional in sports is anyone who is earning money from it. theres no mention of how much money needs to be earned, only that there is income.
which is why college players dont "make money" *cough cough*.

I can't answer that question but I can state unequivocally that you are a Professional dead ferret keeper.

 

[Designer]

..what do i become then, an amateur paramedic?

Yup, you just happen to be in the neighborhood when there is a horrible traffic accident, and you step up and proclaim yourself to be an amateur paramedic, and ask if you can administer some first aid.

"Would you folks like some free first aid? I can't accept any cash payment for my services, but we can talk about any collectable sewing machines you might have around the house."

Or ferret food.

But seriously, Jason, that scenario is a bit different.

In the case of photography, if I claim a $35 "fee" for a photo, how does that make me a professional photographer?

Or even if it was $250? If at the conclusion of the transaction, I walk away with some money, how am I now a professional photographer? I'm still just a guy with a camera who pocketed some cash.

Even if I decide that I now own a "business" of photography, and report the income on my tax return, a piddling amount of money isn't going to qualify me as a Professional photographer. I'm still just a guy with a part-time photography business.

 

[pixmedic]

..what do i become then, an amateur paramedic?

Yup, you just happen to be in the neighborhood when there is a horrible traffic accident, and you step up and proclaim yourself to be an amateur paramedic, and ask if you can administer some first aid.

"Would you folks like some free first aid? I can't accept any cash payment for my services, but we can talk about any collectable sewing machines you might have around the house."

Or ferret food.

But seriously, Jason, that scenario is a bit different.

In the case of photography, if I claim a $35 "fee" for a photo, how does that make me a professional photographer?

Or even if it was $250? If at the conclusion of the transaction, I walk away with some money, how am I now a professional photographer? I'm still just a guy with a camera who pocketed some cash.

Even if I decide that I now own a "business" of photography, and report the income on my tax return, a piddling amount of money isn't going to qualify me as a Professional photographer. I'm still just a guy with a part-time photography business.

So your saying there's no such thing as a part time professional?

 

[table1349]

..what do i become then, an amateur paramedic?

Yup, you just happen to be in the neighborhood when there is a horrible traffic accident, and you step up and proclaim yourself to be an amateur paramedic, and ask if you can administer some first aid.

"Would you folks like some free first aid? I can't accept any cash payment for my services, but we can talk about any collectable sewing machines you might have around the house."

Or ferret food.

But seriously, Jason, that scenario is a bit different.

In the case of photography, if I claim a $35 "fee" for a photo, how does that make me a professional photographer?

Or even if it was $250? If at the conclusion of the transaction, I walk away with some money, how am I now a professional photographer? I'm still just a guy with a camera who pocketed some cash.

Even if I decide that I now own a "business" of photography, and report the income on my tax return, a piddling amount of money isn't going to qualify me as a Professional photographer. I'm still just a guy with a part-time photography business.

So your saying there's no such thing as a part time professional?

Nope, dead ferrets are a full time job.

 

[pixmedic]

..what do i become then, an amateur paramedic?

Yup, you just happen to be in the neighborhood when there is a horrible traffic accident, and you step up and proclaim yourself to be an amateur paramedic, and ask if you can administer some first aid.

"Would you folks like some free first aid? I can't accept any cash payment for my services, but we can talk about any collectable sewing machines you might have around the house."

Or ferret food.

But seriously, Jason, that scenario is a bit different.

In the case of photography, if I claim a $35 "fee" for a photo, how does that make me a professional photographer?

Or even if it was $250? If at the conclusion of the transaction, I walk away with some money, how am I now a professional photographer? I'm still just a guy with a camera who pocketed some cash.

Even if I decide that I now own a "business" of photography, and report the income on my tax return, a piddling amount of money isn't going to qualify me as a Professional photographer. I'm still just a guy with a part-time photography business.

what if you made $30k a year working part time as a photographer? 60k?
what amount makes you a professional? who decides that?
if you can make a lot money doing crappy work with entry level gear are you still a pro?
when we had our child, our very special needs child, my wife stopped doing photography full time in order to be able to stay at home
to take care of our son. she didn't stop completely however, and we still did the occasional wedding and portrait work.
did she somehow become less professional overnight just because she worked less?

i would wager a guess that there are plenty of photographers who do the same thing.
plenty of excellent photographers who simply dont want to give up their day jobs, but are no less legal, and provide
no less a quality product than any other "full time" photographer, and therefor, regardless of how often they work or how much money they make, are a professional photographer.

I am sure there are part time photographers making more money than plenty of legit full timers.
there is no working time requirement to run a business, other than what is needed to get the job done. no minimum profit margin other than your overhead...no requirement at all, state or federal, that says you have to make XXX amount of money to be a business.
so how can you break down "professional" into a number that you cant even name?

 

[Vtec44]

One of the requirements to be a member of NPS ( Nikon Professional) is that you have to be a full time photographer. I'm not sure if that means anything hahahah

 

[pixmedic]

One of the requirements to be a member of NPS ( Nikon Professional) is that you have to be a full time photographer. I'm not sure if that means anything hahahah

Kinda....
But NPS makes its own rules governing what they consider "professional".
It's strictly subjective since there's no official state certification for photographers.
But if you want in their club, you have to play by their rules.

NPS also has specific gear requirements, which are aimed more at the journalism/wedding and wildlife photographers than studio guys.

 

[The_Traveler]

1- it's not my place to judge or question how couples prioritize the facets of their wedding and the money they spend on those things.

Yah, well it is mine.
If they can spend $2000 for flowers that don't last the evening or other things that are ephemeral, they can pay me. My time is valuable and I won't give it away to people who don't value it in return.

2- I know that in a lot of the other facet industries for weddings there is very little wiggle room for what they can spend. Food and drink is either expensive or astronomical, there is no affordable. Venues are the same way, unless you go for places that aren't primarily/typically function venues

I ran a non-profit in Washington DC for 5 years and married off two daughters plus did 3 other rehearsal dinners for the boys. I have some idea of what things cost. If you don't think you are as important as the flowers or the imprinted take-aways, don't do it.

I don't consider myself as a social welfare organization for the poor. People can choose to spend what they want. I am really careful about what I give away in terms of time and, tbh, the tax write-off is trivial.

 

[Vtec44]

Yah, well it is mine.
If they can spend $2000 for flowers that don't last the evening or other things that are ephemeral, they can pay me. My time is valuable and I won't give it away to people who don't value it in return.

I try not to judge people! LOL I think you and I share the same sentiment. We want to work with those who value our work.

For me, I want clients to come to me because they absolutely love what I do and share the same approach to wedding photography, not because I'm the cheapest around. I will go the extra miles in return for them. Most of the weddings I shot are smaller, around 100 guests, but the clients put in a lot of thoughts/care in every little details. A few times this year, my photography fee is probably more than the entire wedding itself and the clients absolutely love their photos.

To each their own. I just do what works for me

 

[Advanced Photo]

Okay, so this post is mostly just to brag on myself with people who know how it feels to be starting out, cause I'm feeling super jazzed right now!

Early last month I made the decision to start trying to make money with my photos, largely because I want to upgrade my gear and I just can't justify that unless I start making it pay for itself. I've worked as a second shooter for a photog friend of mine a few times and been the photographer for a few friend's weddings, and I love the work. I know it's easy to get burned out on it, but I think that has to do a lot with pacing yourself and not saying "yes" to every job that comes up.

So... I built a website with my limited portfolio (emmathurgood.com, c&c welcome, link fixed), and started advertising on two sites, Thumbtack and wedding.com. In just two weeks I've had six client inquiries!! What? And the weird part is that one of them actually found me on a google search. Double WHAT?! I can't even find me on a google search!

So, one of the clients has already said they want to book, so I've sent the contract and I'm awaiting a deposit. I have two consultations set up for this week, a shoot with a modern hooper for this week, and I'm working out a session time for an engagement shoot in the next month or so. In addition to all this, I took up a job at a retail studio where I am already killing it and my new boss seems pretty pleased with my ability.

So what do you think, am I a professional photographer now?

Of course you are a professional. And, as all professional photographers, you have some room to grow. It's really sad to see members who try to discourage the art and science of photography by saying things like "Unless you make at least 1.5 million a year, you are not as good as I am and certainly not a professional." Rubbish.
If you take a picture with a camera, you are a photographer. If it sells for any type of remuneration, you are a professional photographer, it's that simple according to the language we are all using.
I see a lot of posts that in effect say, I am young and want to change the world with my art, and a lot of replies saying you suck.
It's obvious to me that the status quo is not a good thing for the art of photography, it's trying to suppress new ideas and new ways of doing business just to keep itself from having to compete with the same services being offered for less, and in some cases, better services. I say, go for it, shake up the established photographic business model and help to do away with the status quo.
I take photos and sell the prints, big prints on canvass and on museum quality papers and I make a great deal of money for my efforts, enough that I only have to work a few days a month to make 6 figures. I am lucky. I am also smart enough to know I am not doing anything that anyone else couldn't do, and I think there are a lot of so called pro photographers that have lost sight of that fact and have let other peoples comments about their work cloud their judgement and they start to believe the hype. They think that they are somehow doing something no one else can do. Pish.
If they died tomorrow the world as a whole would not lose anything it couldn't replace. They are not indispensable, and neither am I, I just realize it and thank my lucky stars for the blessings I have received.
Some photographers need a lesson in humility.

And to you, Emma, way to go. Don't let the nay sayers stop you. Don't get your legal advice or business advice from a forum, seek professional services near you where you can meet one on one and discuss what you want and how you want to achieve it.

 

[vintagesnaps]

C'mon, the ferrets just happen to need 23+ hours of sleep a day...

It seems like once you're getting paid, you probably can't really consider yourself to be just an amateur or hobbyist anymore... but then again, people can call themselves whatever they want apparently, it doesn't mean someone is doing professional quality work just because they call themselves pros.

Unfortunately for photography as a skill or as an art, or as a job/profession, anyone with a camera can list themselves as a photographer, shoot a bunch of mediocre photos, keep it cheap and get customers. It devalues photography and makes it hard for photographers to make money and brings down the profession I think.

I don't think it has to be full or part time to be considered professional, and the same for other jobs (such as my work with families and children, we had part time staff that had to have the same licensure as those of us who worked fulltime).

I've read about calls for possibly someday there being some sort of qualification standards for working, professional photographers, which I think might be a good way to set an industry standard. Not that it would necessarily be anything required for a photographer to work and charge money but maybe a way for someone to show they meet standards in providing good quality professional photography. (NPS being mentioned made me think of PPA's program that's their own internal system of showing that a photographer demonstrates a particular skill level. I've seen it displayed on photographers' websites to show that they meet those standards.)

I think it could be possible to offer somewhat more budget friendly options, and price at the lower end of the going rate in your area; most people seem to start out that way and work up toward the higher end. But there's a difference between doing charity work and offering a variety of package options - everyone has a wedding budget and they need to prioritize how they want to spend their money. Just because a prospective customer may be on a tighter budget than others hardly means they're at poverty level and so financially needy that a photographer should shoot their wedding cheap or for free (unless it's a particular situation that a photographer chooses to do it pro bono).

I think it might be worth considering other options for income for now since hours were cut at the current job, and work on developing skills and building up toward a good professional reputation and potential career. It would be good to learn what's involved in doing this - try PPA or http://asmp.org for resources.

 

[table1349]

C'mon, the ferrets just happen to need 25+ hours of sleep a day...

FIFY

 

[table1349]

While the business model for photography is changing there are some things that do not change. Economics 101 is simple. If it costs more to produce a product than what you sell it for you are not going to be in business long.

While $90 an hours sounds good for a 10 hour shoot, you can pretty much double that to post process the images to their best. So $30 an hour doesn't sound to bad either, except when you work for someone and they pay you $30 and hour you aren't shouldering the costs of business, you are one of the costs of business.

Some of the thing to consider from the strictly business side.

Incorporation/LLC fees if applicable. If you don't and something happens everything you own, EVERYTHING is subject to a lawsuit.

Attorney to properly set up the business. They charge per hour damn near what you are charging for an entire 10 hour wedding.

City, County, State licensing and fees if necessary.

Liability Insurance for you and your clients.

Gear insurance. Home owners policy etc. will not cover if the gear is used for business.

Accountant to handle the financial end of the business.

Car/vehicle Insurance. Most people don't think about this one but once you transition using a vehicle from personal use, going to and from a place of work that you do not own is still personal use, and you become the business owner the insurance company is not going to cover your vehicle for business use.

These are just a few.

As for the whole "Professional" aspect. In the world of Photography the word Professional isn't worth the letters its spelled with. If you can take a photo and find some fool to buy it you are a professional. What does matter is being a Competent photographer. That is much tougher. Competence has nothing to do with making money and everything to do with truly understanding photography from all angles. Competence is a life long acquisition process that only stops once you are dead, or just too damn lazy to care.