Softproofing question

[mhattonmd]

Im new to this so I appreciate any and all advice.

I have calibrated my iMac 5k retina using the i1 display pro.

I am printing to an epson r3000.

For color handling when printing I am using the specific epson paper's ICC profile to print.

When softproofing in lightroom 5, i choose the same epson paper profile and click on simulate paper and ink. The resulting softproof version this creates looks dull, grey, compared to the original---- as expected

I then line up the original and the softproof version side by side and do what i can to improve the softproof version to make it look like the intended original.

The final print looks better than the original softproof version but still duller, more bland than the original.

any further tips on getting the printed version to look more like the original edit?

 

[KmH]

Because a print is lit with ambient light rather than being back lit like a computer display, the print will always look more dull and bland than an electronic display.

Something to check is the color space/color profile of the image file to make sure it is compatible with your printer.

 

[gsgary]

Try different paper, are you printing B+W ? because it is hard to get good digital prints a top notch printer is needed for good b+W ive never seen one to match a good wet print

 

[mhattonmd]

Because a print is lit with ambient light rather than being back lit like a computer display, the print will always look more dull and bland than an electronic display.

Something to check is the color space/color profile of the image file to make sure it is compatible with your printer.

Thank you. Can you explain more? I keep my color space in LR and PS as

Im new to this so I appreciate any and all advice.

I have calibrated my iMac 5k retina using the i1 display pro.

I am printing to an epson r3000.

For color handling when printing I am using the specific epson paper's ICC profile to print.

When softproofing in lightroom 5, i choose the same epson paper profile and click on simulate paper and ink. The resulting softproof version this creates looks dull, grey, compared to the original---- as expected

I then line up the original and the softproof version side by side and do what i can to improve the softproof version to make it look like the intended original.

The final print looks better than the original softproof version but still duller, more bland than the original.

any further tips on getting the printed version to look more like the original edit?

Because a print is lit with ambient light rather than being back lit like a computer display, the print will always look more dull and bland than an electronic display.

Something to check is the color space/color profile of the image file to make sure it is compatible with your printer.

Thanks for the info. In terms of color space and profile, I go from shooting raw to LR .dng, make edits and send to the r3000. I am using the ICC profile of the paper I am printing to in the soft proof profile, and use that same ICC in the print menu under color management.
Any other advice?

 

[KmH]

LR's Develop module uses a dedicated color space (Melissa RGB) for editing that has the same color gamut as the ProPhoto RGB color space but a different gamma.
So, what color space do you assign for output from LR into PS, and what color space and color profile do you assign to your print file before you send it to your printer?

Tutorials on Color Management & Printing

Fine Art Printing for Photographers: Exhibition Quality Prints with Inkjet Printers
The Digital Print: Preparing Images in Lightroom and Photoshop for Printing

 

[mhattonmd]

LR's Develop module uses a dedicated color space (Melissa RGB) for editing that has the same color gamut as the ProPhoto RGB color space but a different gamma.
So, what color space do you assign for output from LR into PS, and what color space and color profile do you assign to your print file before you send it to your printer?

Tutorials on Color Management & Printing

Fine Art Printing for Photographers: Exhibition Quality Prints with Inkjet Printers
The Digital Print: Preparing Images in Lightroom and Photoshop for Printing

Very interesting. Thanks. When going from LR to PS I do assign ProPhoto RGB but I almost always print from LR without going to PS.
I didn't realize you could assign a color space/profile when going from LR to the printer. I do choose the ICC for the paper I print to from Epson, and make sure I have it set that LR manages color (and turn off the printer manages color). If you could tell me how to assign a color space/profile from LR to the printer that would be much appreciated!

 

[Alexr25]

As KmH says the LR color space is fixed at Melissa which is ProPhoto with a gamma of 1 but really its not important what it is, you can't alter it or do anything with it.
For printing the output color space is defined by the ICC profile of the printer, paper combination you choose, there is no other color space to set.

Everything you are doing is correct but you also have to make sure that you turn off ICC color management in the printer driver. Go to the "printer..." tab in the print module then to "properties" and then to the "advanced" tab. Check the ICC radio button and tick the "off (no color managment)" check box.

 

[KmH]

ProPhoto RGB has a color gamut so wide that some of the colors in the gamut cannot be seen by humans.
I don't think your 9-color Epson can print ProPhoto RGB.

Lightroom Help | Print job options and settings

However, to achieve colors in print that more closely resemble the bright and saturated look of onscreen colors in Lightroom, select Print Adjustment. Then, drag the Brightness and Contrast sliders.
Note: Dragging the Brightness and Contrast sliders produces tone curve adjustments. These adjustments do not preview onscreen. It may take some experimentation to determine what settings work best for your individual photos and your specific printer.

That means making multiple prints, using up expensive ink, and wasting print paper.
Which are reasons many photographers pay a pro lab to make their prints instead of making their own.

Do you only have LR?
Adobe's $9.99 a month Photography Program subscription service includes both LR and Ps because LR is designed to be a front end processing compliment to Ps, not a replacement for Ps.

 

[Alexr25]

ProPhoto RGB has a color gamut so wide that some of the colors in the gamut cannot be seen by humans.
I don't think your 9-color Epson can print ProPhoto RGB.

Lightroom does not attempt to print in the ProPhoto color space. It prints in the printer color space as defined by the printer ICC profile. The way the OP has LR set up ProPhoto is only used when exporting to Photoshop which is a legitimate way of setting up your workflow.
Photoshop does the same thing, it converts the image its printing from whatever color space its using into the printer color space when it sends images to the printer.

 

[mhattonmd]

Alex- thanks. Any other suggestions to my workflow? If I had everyyhing in RGB from start to finish rather than proPhoto would it make a difference in the final print?

 

[Alexr25]

If I had everyyhing in RGB from start to finish rather than proPhoto would it make a difference in the final print?

No that would not help, internally lightroom uses its propriety version of PhotoPro and all photo are first converted into that colour space then for printing the images are converted into the printers colour space.

Good images on your monitor indicate that there are no problems with the import conversion so there would be nothing to gain from changing your colour space. You are seeing a duller image in soft proofing mode because the dynamic range of a printed image is much smaller than the dynamic range of the same image displayed on a monitor. This is most noticeable if you are using matte paper as the maximuim density (Dmax) of matte paper is much lower than it is for gloss.

You could uncheck the "simulate paper" checkbox in the soft proofing dialog, that will prevent lightroom from simulating the lower contrast that you get from paper prints while still displaying any out of gamut colours but other than that all you can do is just accept it as a fact of life that prints are never going to give the same colour gamut and contrast range as images on you monitor.