Starting a System

jvgig · Jan 20, 2009

Can you use the lens hood with the flash attached to the lens, or would I have to find another way of attaching the flash?

Overread · Jan 20, 2009

with a ring flash I think not since it atteches direct to the front of the lens. If (as I don't know) ring flashes have screw threads for filters (which I suspect they might have) then you can go to somewhere like ebay and get a screwthread mount lens hood

I am looking to get one for when I use a circular polarizer so that I can adjust the polarizer without trouble

usayit · Jan 20, 2009

Overread said:
personally I prefer to have a hood on when shooting macro work - its very usefull at pushing back twigs

hmm.. never thought about that... good point

Your best option would be NOT to rely on attaching the flashes on the filter ring. You need to use a macro flash bracket which attaches to the body of the camera and not the lens. There are various makes and models of different designs. It will take a bit of search to find the best one for you (how it attaches, how flexible it is, and how it is adjusted).

see this one for an example of what I am talking about.
Really Right Stuff ... Multiple Flash Options

davebmck · Jan 20, 2009

When I use my MT-14EX with my 100mm macro, I cannot use a hood or even a filter. They both interfere with the way the ring flash mounts to the flash. As I mentioned before, I would check to make sure the MT-24EX will mount on the Sigma lens.

jvgig · Jan 20, 2009

I have confirmed that the flash is compatible with the sigma.

In the manual it only states that you cannot use a filter with the 58mm lenses. Could it then be assumed that since you have to screw on the 72mm adapter that you could use a filter in that setup?

I checked out the Really Right Stuff flash brackets and the system's price is higher than that of the tripod that I am looking at. Since it only has to hold up two little flash heads, I was expecting something around $50, not $500. I could build my own, much more flexible bracket for under $100 Homemade Macro Flash Bracket.....Part II - Photo.net Canon EOS Forum.

Overread · Jan 20, 2009

honestly if you look at those twin heads on the flash they are very close to the front of the lens - I would expect the hood to shield too much light from them - defeating the point of their use.
If your after alternate setups for flashes this might be of interest to you:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/off-topic-chat/150654-hard-choices-definate-plans-year.html
see the second post; one could also mount a 580M2 in the camera hotshoe and then have a second flash wired to it on the tripod collar

davebmck · Jan 20, 2009

The flash heads on the MT-24 are much further out away from the lens (radially) than the ones on the MT-14. You might be able to get away with using a hood if it was fairly short.

jvgig · Jan 20, 2009

I definitely want to stay with the MT-24EX as it would be substantially lighter for hand held shots than two full size flashes and adjustable brackets to hold them, but this is not an urgent decision. I am looking at alternatives for mounting the little flash heads as I think I would feel much more comfortable with the lens hood on if possible. I am thinking that I would only need some of those flexible tube things with a clip on the end and a wrap that would go around the lens and attach to the other end. I should be able to get substantially long flex tubes to allow for many lighting possibilities while still maintaining stability due to their small size.

Overread · Jan 20, 2009

are the flash heads removable? I know on the nikon brand one can add more flash heads to the ring - but as far as I know both the canon and nikon are fixed to the ring. One would (I expect) have to customise the flashes to remove them which (at £500+) is not something to approach lightly!
I don't think having the lights fixed has had any major detrimental effect on the abilty to light macro shots - if macro lighting is something you want more idea for take a look at this blog : No Cropping Zone
Dalentech has a few articles in there with using the heads on the flash effectivly.

jvgig · Jan 20, 2009

I will try it out without the hood first, but I am just covering my bases in case I am feeling uneasy with that configuration.

From the Canon site

"The new Macro Twin Lite gives serious close-up, nature, and macro enthusiasts a different option in macro lighting - a directional quality of light, as opposed to the rather "Flat" character of the traditional ring lite. Two separate flash heads can be swiveled around the lens, can be aimed separately, and even removed from their holder and mounted off-camera. Like the MR-14EX, the new Macro Twin Lite MT-24EX is fully E-TTL compatible with all EOS bodies, including digital SLRs, and even allows Wireless E-TTL flash control with one or more 550EX and/or 420EX "slave units". It also provides easy ratio control of each flash head’s output, over a six-stop range."

If I dont feel the need to use a hood, I will probably still make a flexible stand for one of the lights to give me the option to light the background with one and the subject with the other.

I am pretty much settled on everything but the tripod legs. I would like to read a few user reports on the Giotto system before laying down $190 on tripod legs. I have only seen one review on a different model and it was very positive, but I would feel more comfortable with a few more accounts to verify quality control.

usayit · Jan 20, 2009

Not really Giottos tripod related but I have one of their early M100 ball heads. The metal between the "neck" and quick release was low quality and I had it fail while on a shoot. My camera's strap was still around my neck fortunately. I retapped the neck and bolted another Bogen style quick release platform. I still use it but the experience left a bad taste.

On a budget, go with bogen manfrotto (I pointed you to a good option in my post above). More funds, go with Gitzo. Both brands are known good. Don't be afraid to go used as both make sturdy products and there is not much on a tripod to break.

Also, the link to the "right stuff" flash bracket was for example. If you search, there are many options out there for less $$$. I figure it would be relatively simple to make one as well.

Overread · Jan 20, 2009

*completly forgot that I posted in this thread*
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...-mt-8361-tripod-mh-1300-ball-head-review.html

a review of a giottos tripod - you could ask for any more direct info if you want

jvgig · Jan 20, 2009

I found the 3021 Pro for $170 which places it in between the new 055XPROB and the MTL 9371B.

Are there any functional differences between the two Manfrotto legs?

I cannot find any premade flash brackets with adjustable arms for under $250, and since it is such as simple product with light flash heads, I cannot justify that price.

usayit · Jan 20, 2009

Bogen/Manfrotto use the same model numbers for years and years incrementally improving their design.

My fairly trusty old version twist style locks. The next version introduced a beveled center column. The next version introduced quick release leg locks. I think the next after this one introduced legs that can spread out even farther to get lower to the ground. The next version introduced the even quicker flip lever style leg locks. The next version was the "pro" which introduced the ability to slide the center column horizontally. The last letter in the model name designates some sort of option; "B" is black finish. I have another 3021S which designates "short". They suddenly changed how they do model numbers/names which confuses me like crazy. IIRC, the latest 055Xpro adds a system to slide the center column to the horizontal without having to disassemble the center column.

Go to Bogen Imaging Inc. | photo - audio - cine - broadcast - video - digital and run the numbers through their search. I you can see the detailed specs. If 3021/055 is too much, you can also look at the lighter version which is the 3001 which was replaced by 190 series.

The point I am trying to make is to look for one USED that fits in your budget and needs. Rather than looking for the "latest greatest". Look for a USED one that has the specifications that meet your needs... Tallest height, horizontal column position, lowest height, etc... Part of the reason to look at used is to work a budget... rather than just buying the latest. Bogen/Manfrotto has been around SO SO So long that you'll have more options on the used market than you'll find for the newer GIOTTOS brand. I mentioned Bogen/Manfrotto as a response to your question regarding brands that will have more used options.

You should also just consider geared center columns. I've seen many macro photographers that prefer the accurate and incremental adjustments of the geared center columns. Me personally never really consider them as I didn't like them... just something to consider.

BTW.. I have absolutely no experience with this product but the Bogen 330B macro flash bracket is $55. Unfortunately, it doesn't look too adjustable. I did a search and found several makers/models that are less than $200. The biggest difference with the more expensive models is how adjustable the arms that hold the two flashes are. If you decide that a hood is not absolutely necessary (which I think it is not), I still think it is ok to attach it to the lens via the filter ring sans hood.