The death of C&C

[zulu42]

Am I the only one who remembers there used to be more critique here? I, for one, miss it.

Critique can be hard to hear. When I post a photo here, I only post what I feel are examples of my "better" and "best" work. Therefore, any critique can be hard to swallow. I'm sure there's been times when I have responded to critique less gracefully than I would hope. I really hope that I haven't discouraged anyone from offering their opinion. A big part of my growth as a hobbyist has been due to critique and suggestions that have forced me to look at my own work with a more critical eye.

Critique that I find valuable comes in the form of technical advice as well as opinions and preference. For my work: don't hold back. I value opinions, especially from photographers whose work I enjoy and/or respect. Sometimes I may be so attached to my work that I'll simply disagree with a suggestion, but then go back a few days later only to find the merit I initially disregarded. Other times I find no merit, but I appreciate the time a member took to consider my photo and offer an opinion. I try to appreciate it, at least...

Some of us are only qualified to offer personal preference suggestions. Others here have education or experience that qualifies them to speak with more technical authority. An individual with education and understanding of the principles of art and design might suggest a crop that would provide more balance to my image. I'd be wise to consider the suggestion, even if I think my crop is perfect.

Any image I post here is open for critique. If I get butt-hurt and snotty, I apologize in advance. Earlier in my membership here, I posted some photos of which I was very proud, and I didn't think could be improved. I got some critique. It hurt. I resented it for a time, but remembered what some people thought could be improved. Then... I improved.

I miss the critique. I miss that terrible yet beneficial feeling of posting my masterpiece, then having a glaring mistake pointed out. Or just getting a suggestion that provides a tiny improvement.

How do you feel about being critiqued? How do you feel about providing critique? Has the atmosphere here changed with regard to critique?

Thanks for reading, and feel free to C&C this post!

 

[Derrel]

It seems like there are many who don't want critique or respond negatively to critique and so I think that many people have stopped offering meaningful critique.

 

[weepete]

I feel exactly the same.

Maybe in the past it could be overly harsh, but I do think we've moved too much the other way.

One of the reasons I joined this forum was for harsh, but fair critique. It's been ages since I've seen a "meh" and while the positivity does great for my ego, the lack of hard critique has also got me stalling creatively and technically.

Tell you what mate, if you want spesific critique on a shot I'll offer up my services and I'll do my best to be fair and honest. Just fire me a PM with the thread and I'll find some time to look and give you a detailed C&C

 

[SquarePeg]

While officially the gallery forums are stated as open to critique, I tend to only offer it if it’s requested. I always put at the end of all of my photo posts that comments critique and suggestions are always welcome but if I’m looking for critique on something in particular I spell it out. I think there was a time when critique on this site was a bit on the harsh side from some but it was helpful. I have offered critique a few times that was not taken well by someone even though it was offered very politely.

I think if you want critique on your photo these days you need to put in the subject line for C & C. And I think you also need to put some comments in there on what specifically you’re looking for critique on. Composition? Lighting? Posing? Editing choices?

 

[SquarePeg]

I want to add that this site has a lot of commenting and interaction on Photo threads compared to sone others. There are some other sites where you post a photo and 25 people “like” your photo but nobody offers even a comment which if that’s what you wanted you just be on Instagram instead of in a discussion forum. we have some good discussions on here but they are not usually critique.

What would you all think of having a separate forum for critique? Were you post your photo if you would like a thorough critique?

 

[charlie76]

You know....strangely enough, I came on this site today considering starting this thread (or one similar). This topic was touched on in another thread "accidentally" where one person jumped to the defense of another over extremely mild, polite critique of an OP's photo. "coup d'état..."

When I joined in 2012 the discussion and CC was completely different. I got very direct harsh critique from more experienced photographers. For free!! I mean...I paid art school teachers lots of money to give me the same thing, but on here it's free! And from serious photographers! I would break a sweat every time I posted something. But... when those photographers gave positive feedback or actually "liked" something, I knew it was their honest opinion and not bs. I learned to be careful, and to be more attentive to details in my own work. I didn't post haphazardly, and I put more thought into the images I presented.

As I return here in 2020...I learned immediately that the line between CC and offending someone (OP or other) was pretty thin. I see snapshots of pets. Generic, plain images get posted and nobody offers anything but a pat on the back. The OP's go away feeling great about a crappy photo and learn squat.

And to be honest...I feel less comfortable being critical of others work (see Derrel's comment above) so I learn a lot less too. Offering CC is just as enriching that receiving it IMO if serious thought is put into the CC. I'd make a connection to the every-kid-gets-a-trophy mindset that seems to have infected my dear culture, but that's a different thread entirely....or is it

 

[smoke665]

Several years ago when I first joined this site I listened, and gleaned so much technical advice, but as time passed and my experience increased the critique moved more from technical to opinion. I've never shunned technical or opinion critique, but frankly I found that much of the critique started becoming stale. As I moved more into creative work, there seemed to be general trend to be critical of anything that didnt fall within certain narrow preconceived ideas.

If you fish in the same pond every day, then you can't complain about the catch, so I moved on to other ponds. Sadly strong opinions right or wrong exist everywhere, but I did discover the pool of knowledge is far greater than the confines of TPF. Mark Twain said, “An expert is an ordinary fellow from another town”, there are a lot of towns out there.

I don't post much serious work for critique here or on other sites anymore, thanks to the advice of some exceptional photographers. Their feeling is that if you've been into photography for a long time, familiar with the technical aspects, then it’s better to rely on your vision and creative instincts. Once you get past the technical it's a matter of taste, and since other people’s taste may not be the same as yours, their opinions may not be helpful for your future progress. What’s more, they can even hinder it because other people’s opinions can influence your future decisions and make you doubt your creative instincts. This might not be wise advise for those that depend on what others think of their work, but for me it's been liberating, only needing to please myself.

 

[charlie76]

What would you all think of having a separate forum for critique? Were you post your photo if you would like a thorough critique?

I totally agree with you. However, IMO...if you post a photo on this site, you should expect feedback, negative or positive. Otherwise the purpose of this forum is......is......um..? Dunno...an ego booster?

How about the opposite? If you don't want people to state their opinions, they should have a forum for them!! So they can all just hit the like button all day!! Basically a forum of hamster and puppy pictures all day

 

[SquarePeg]

What would you all think of having a separate forum for critique? Were you post your photo if you would like a thorough critique?

I totally agree with you. However, IMO...if you post a photo on this site, you should expect feedback, negative or positive. Otherwise the purpose of this forum is......is......um..? Dunno...an ego booster?

How about the opposite? If you don't want people to state their opinions, they should have a forum for them!! So they can all just hit the like button all day!! Basically a forum of hamster and puppy pictures all day

We have that already it’s called the Just For Fun gallery where critique is not expected. All other gallery forums are open to critique whether it’s requested or not.

This is just my opinion as someone who posts photos on the site frequently, not as a moderator - I agree that c&c has been missing lately and even when you ask for it you don’t always get it. It doesn’t need to be given harshly to be effective but neither does it need to be swaddled in rainbows and unicorns. I remember getting shredded on a photo when I first joined this site. In the end it was helpful but if I had a thinner skin I would never have come back. Some people took the license to critique and the anonymity of the internet as a license to be a jerk. There’s a happy medium somewhere for adults to have a discussion and provide critique without being so rude and cutting that newbies are afraid to post a photo.

Feel free to critique away in the gallery forums and as long as it’s not abusive, then no need to worry about hurting feelings. If someone doesn’t respond well to the feedback and gets defensive or insulted, just make a note to ignore their photo threads in the future.

 

[Tropicalmemories]

I joined this forum after fruitlessly searching through hundreds of Flockr 'critique' and 'discussion' Groups where the last posts were 11 years ago.

I really appreciate the constructive feedback I've had from this forum on my pictures, and it's help me to check on backgrounds and composition by learning about how other people view my portraits.

I tend to get target fixation, and it's only when someone says "she looks like she has a tree groing out of her head" that I see my images as others do.

I've also found the feedback to be balanced and fair, and always thank people for taking the time to provide detailed critique.

Yes, I would like to see more, as it's really only the Black and White forum where I see regular critique - so a dedicated Critique Forum sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Original katomi]

C&c can be a hard thing, I will post cc if it is asked for, but otherwise not.
From personal experience I know the feeling to have an image that at the time is the best I can produce only to have it ripped apart. Like talking down to others who are new or only have more basic kit. It’s something I have tried v hard not to do, if there is something I really think the OP could do/know I may pm them so that the comment is private and suggest an idea
Sometimes I have an image that I know could be better, but I just don’t know how. Them I will put my image open to cc. If others post cc on my images then it’s worth a look and deciding what to do with the ideas

 

[Photo Lady]

I want it.. and i need it..

 

[jcdeboever]

I just recently paid someone to critique some personal work that I have never posted. It was pretty brutal to say the least but very helpful. Funny how the work I thought would get the harshest criticism was met with the least.

 

[Soocom1]

The art of diplomacy is lost in the modern PC "we can't say anything" movement.


Words like discrimination, judgement and prejudice have been relegated to the bin of derogatory application whilst such is in reality aspects of terms used quite readily in the past for such things as C&C.

If one researches the actual words and terms used you would discover that the original definitions of such words had an entirely different meaning than the modern connotation.

I could give a long list of names and events, but rather than seek out a first class..."your ignorant" argument, the whole crux of the C&C was to learn from mistakes and expand on ideas. But that was based on the implication that one who was posting was adult enough to listen and learn.

I don't have a problem myself to open discussion, but there must also be the aspect that if one decides to open one's self up to such, then they must be readily willing to accept it, minus of course abuse.

This goes back to the core of education and the rudimentary base level of education given to the modern student. it is not based on making it hard to learn so as to grow, but easy so as not to offend.

 

[zombiesniper]

I used to comment more on photos trying to aid the poster in their photography.

I found that most people just post CC welcome. To me that reads "I'm to damn lazy to bother assessing my own work and want you to go through and walk me by the hand to take a good picture". Early on I tried writing a long post about how they could improve the image, even pointing out the things that were good. This would inevitable be seen as an overly harsh/critical post and usually got the OP very defensive. Not to mention frustrated me to aid lazy people. So I don't do general CC's. I've posted about how to properly ask for help as have others. But this seems to be lost on many.

A lot, not all but a lot of the newer members seem to only want a pat on the back. Even when they post CC welcome. They don't mean it. It's like they think it's the only way someone will comment on their post. Then when you do try and help, they get all but hurt. Once this happens I tend to block the user so I never have to see their crap.

Lastly, some people should not be critiquing anything since they are only posting opinion based critiques which are useless or they are brand/sensor sized fanboys and can't see past their own bias.

Combine all of this and I now only help people that genuinely seem like they want it. The rest can live in mediocrity.