The new Nikon Z-Mount Cameras- who is in?

[Derrel]

Nikon's obsessed with catching up to Sony. It's apparent they missed the point of MILCs: size and weight savings. If the new bodies sport the same plus-size as their prosumer and pro DSLRs and lenses weigh-in heavy, they've accomplished very little, hype notwithstanding.

I disagree. MILCs are about MUCH more than weight savings. They perform better in many ways and have features that wouldn’t be possible in a DSLR.

Sony has been massively successful with MILCs that are as big/heavy as a DSLR (and lenses that are bigger than their DSLR equivalents in many cases) because the bodies have so many high tech features.

Personally, I prefer my camera system to have a certain amount of size and weight to it. I find it very easy and natural to shoot with my D810 because it’s increased size and weight actually makes it easier to hold steady and get a secure grip on it when compared to my X-T20, which is pretty much too small (and has poor ergonomics) to comfortably hand hold.

I have to agree with this, the idea that the MILC (Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera) concept is not only about size savings and weight savings compared to the DSLR camera style. Leica's huge and heavy SL mirrorless is a big, weighty camera, with large,heavy lenses, and the Sony A7-series has lenses that are full-sized,heavy,and good. Fuji's X-series has some relatively large,weighty longer zoom lenses. In fact, here is not much,if any, weight savings once one gets into the longer focal length zooms for MILC systems. A lot of the idea that MILC cameras offer smaller,lighter lenses is mostly from early days hyperbole from the micro 4/3 system. On APS-C and FF sized MILC cameras, the lenses are, surprise,surprise, as big and as heavy, or heavier, than the lenses for DSLR systems.

I think cgw was referring to,mostly, the early MILC concept systems, those that used the 2.0x FOV sensor, AKA the m4/3 mirrorless bodies. Sony's A7 series, and Leica's SL, with 24x36mm size sensors, are geared mostly to high-tech features and high performance, and of course, the full-frame 24x36mm sensor size, with LARGE, heavy lenses, with fast, cutting-edge f/stop levels, not slow-aperture lens speeds with variable maximum apertures. There is the small-sensor, m4/3 idea, but there is also a design idea within the MILC segment that saving weight is not the priority, the priority is pro-level optical performance,and high-end body features.

Costly camera bodies and lenses, the types of goods that appeal to people who buy costly camera bodies and lenses, have to deliver high-end performance--and that is the "new mirrorless" idea, not saving size and saving weight, but high-end performance. Nikon's not trying to go after the Panasonic and Olympus, tiny-camera segment, they're aiming bigger, and aiming for higher-priced cameras and lenses,at least with the new Z-mount models they'll introduce within a week.

 

[Peeb]

I agree with everybody that the adapter is crucial. I've got much more tied up in glass than in bodies.

I bought a fuji APS-C mirrorless (X-T20) for travel and kicking around, and it it a sweet little rig- but the adapter strips away my AF and VR on my nikkor lenses. You lose EXIF too, which is unfortunate.

 

[cgw]

Dunno, maybe I own too many camera systems, each bought to sort out limitations of the others. My expectations of each seem reasonable to me but don't exceed what I know they can do well.

With respect, Derrel needs to spend some time with current Fuji X cameras and their primes, especially the Fujicron trio. Same goes for the X100T/F. I value the mobility and privacy they bring to my photography. Fujinon zooms simply don't suit my style. I'm not sensing any compromise in my approach--and it's hardly the case I don't know what I'm missing, either. I've seen a few too many friends and acquaintances buy into Fuji, many of them decades-long Nikon faithful. What I think you're missing is that for me, Fuji cameras and lenses are complements to--and not substitutes for--the Nikons I use.

That's really where I see potential problems for Nikon if the new systems appears to many as expensive diversions from what already works with no compelling technical advances to tempt them. They're also selling into a shrinking market that doesn't allow much room for error. Hopefully, Nikon realizes it needs to replenish a bit of brand equity and will deliver products that do just that. We'll see soon enough.

 

[Peeb]

I’m still honeymooning with Fuji so I’m a pass. If I buy any other body in the next few years it will be one of the small but pricey a fixed lens zooms for traveling super light/inconspicuous. Likely a Sony or Fuji.

You're getting such amazing images out of that X-T2, why WOULD you look elsewhere?

I would need to ebay the x-t2o, in addition to my D610 to fund a new 'z' camera. Logically, it's an easy call if the z-mount lives up to the hopes, but emotionally, I would really miss the little fuji-that-could. Such a fun and cool piece of kit.

 

[Derrel]

Dunno, maybe I own too many camera systems, each bought to sort out limitations of the others. My expectations of each seem reasonable to me but don't exceed what I know they can do well.

With respect, Derrel needs to spend some time with current Fuji X cameras and their primes, especially the Fujicron trio. Same goes for the X100T/F. I value the mobility and privacy they bring to my photography. Fujinon zooms simply don't suit my style. I'm not sensing any compromise in my approach--and it's hardly the case I don't know what I'm missing, either. I've seen a few too many friends and acquaintances buy into Fuji, many of them decades-long Nikon faithful. What I think you're missing is that for me, Fuji cameras and lenses are complements to--and not substitutes for--the Nikons I use.

That's really where I see potential problems for Nikon if the new systems appears to many as expensive diversions from what already works with no compelling technical advances to tempt them. They're also selling into a shrinking market that doesn't allow much room for error. Hopefully, Nikon realizes to needs to replenish a bit of brand equity and will deliver products that do just that. We'll see soon enough.

With respect, Sony has taken over the #1 sales in the full-frame market for 2018. Where the high-dollar sales are, in Full Frame sized cameras. Not in lower-priced bodies, but in bodies that,with one zoom, retail in the $2,000 to $5,200 price range.

takes #1 sales spot with mirrorless - Google Search

Sony Is Number One In Full Frame, Owns Mirrorless Market - Sony Mirrorless Pro

https://petapixel.com/2018/08/15/sony-is-now-1-in-full-frame-cameras-in-the-us/

Nikon is a camera maker and camera seller. Fuji, Olympus, and Panasonic are what some people call "hobby business" camera and lens makers that have very tiny sales volumes (and are part of much larger overall corporate parents that can handle the expenses of camera production),compared against Canon and Nikon, whose monthly d-slr sales unit sales are close to or exceeding the yearly sales totals of other, smaller camera makers. What "Nikon" needs to do has zero to do with what I need to do, or what any other private individual photographer needs to do; Nikon, a company, needs to survive, and they want to start with high-prestiege,high-dollar, high-Yen cameras in this segment.

Nikon's options would be to comptete against the Little-sensor Fuji,Panasonic,or Olympus crop-body mirrorless at low retail prices, or to compete against a high-dollar, $5,196 one-zoom body and 24-70mm lens Sony A7r III kit type offerings. THIS IS THE SEGMENT Nikon is targeting wth the launch of two, full-frame mirrorless bodies...targeting the leading FF seller, not the small-volume sellers like Fuji or Panasonic or Olympus. I think they are trying to counter the Sony hype that we see so much these days.

Sony Alpha a7R III Mirrorless Digital Camera with 24-70mm Lens

Fuji's X-series crop-body cameras and one-lens kits are retailing in the $1,000-$1,794 range.Fujifilm X Series Mirrorless Cameras | B&H Photo Video

I think that Nikon wants to sell cameras and one-lens kits that will go head to head with $5,200 Sony A7r-series kits. Not crop-body kits. They have that APS-C niche well-sewn up with the D3300 and D3400 and D5xxx series bodies.

 

[Derrel]

Look at it this way: Nikon decided not to try to beat Fuji at the X-series game...Fuji is very strong in that niche. Nikon decided to take on Sony, in the Full Frame game. Two different market segments. It makes no sense to try to enter a market that your corporate resources make your company ill-suited for.

 

[Jeff G]

I would love to have one, but at my skill level it would be silly, and according to my budget it would be even sillier. But if I win the lottery I'm down with it.

 

[greybeard]

Being the tech nerd that I am, I'll probably end up with one. Nikon has the rep of keeping lens mount as backward compatible as possible. I would be very disappointed if the coming lens adapter isn't fully compatible with at least AF-S lenses. That would really be the deal breaker for me.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

If it would allow me to sell photos for a living just by the purchase. Otherwise I'm content with my F mount Nikons. Rather spend money going to great places to photograph.

 

[Peeb]

OP is now edited to add this link: Nikon strikes back at Sony with first full-frame mirrorless cameras

I would have preferred 2 card slots, and it appears that the adapter may cost extra (?), which would be disappointing. Other than that, the Z6 looks just about spot-on perfect if it performs according to the published specs.

Really impressed, so far.

 

[Jeff15]

Nikon has left their entry into this market too late.

 

[PropilotBW]

I don’t think so. I think there will be a lot of interest. DSLRs will eventually become a thing of the past. They’re only planning for the future of mirrorless technology to replace what they have. I think it’s a good move.

 

[Tim Tucker 2]

The biggest problem with SLRs is the compromise in lens design.

The biggest problem with the Z mount is that the lenses haven't been developed yet.

As to the rest of it, if my D600 packs up I will certainly move to a higher res sensor, and I will certainly move to a Z7 simply because of the promise of far less compromised lens design.

The rest of the bells and whistles don't interest me in the slightest. To me they are simply layers of automation, technical solutions. And as technical solutions are prone to do, they provide technical solutions and not creative ones.

An example, all this high ISO photography and AF modes. It used to be with the restrictions of film that low light photography produced all sorts of problems that resulted in odd effects and the imaginative use of such could lead to some very creative images. Now we can take the same image as we do in daylight and the tendency is for us to do so. The failings of film are seen as failings to be avoided and the digital image of *high IQ/capture the best information/add imagination by way of automated algorithms later* is the goal in all situations. And if we start with similar images we nearly always end up with similar end results...

Really are cameras are being automated to take photos with the same reference of *desired output* for all situations in auto modes, to produce similar photos in all situations, (look what happens these days, when we compare cameras we specify that we use *equivalent* photos, they must be the same for it to be a valid comparison. But all we're doing is comparing image IQ, I don't think anybody sees the actual images they're taking when we compare cameras anymore...).

This is a bit of a loss for photography, and probably why quite a few are turning back to film these days.

I don't mind if the camera's locked in aperture priority/base ISO, as long as I can turn the AF off I'll be happy.

P.s. As far as the EVF/OVF argument goes, we're human, experts at adapting. So I'll adapt... Besides the cameras that I've used that give the most accurate preview of the finished 2D image are LF because of the size of the glass screen. All OVF cameras fail to show clearly the distortion of perspective/distance that you see in a finished image, especially when using UWA lenses...

 

[astroNikon]

Nikon has left their entry into this market too late.

Yes, definitely.
But with camera's it's never too late. Now it's up to the marketing machine to make it successful.
Of course, they still have to fill in the lower aspect of the line of mirrorless cameras all the way down to the $350 APS-C kit line.

I do think it's very interesting how they went to In-Body image stabilization.

 

[jcdeboever]

I'm sure Sony will come out with their 100th version of the A7 in a week or two. On a side note, the ergonomics of the Nikon look way better than Sony. When I was looking to buy the Fuji system, I held the A7 and I immediately knew it wasn't for me. Same thing with the fuji XT20. That's another thing important to me, how does it fit in my hands.